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Old January 27th, 2016, 01:11 AM   #1701
00Zy99
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But more people apparently want to go to Osaka and Kyoto than want to go to Nagoya (too many cars there ).
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:18 AM   #1702
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What I'd like to know is how they plan to extend from Kyoto to Osaka/Shin-Osaka and on to Kansai International. Will they build an extra route? Will the Hokuriku terminate and Osaka main station instead of Shin-Osaka? Will they drop any track connection at all?
Is there even any space at Umeda to build platforms for the Hokuriku Shinkansen?

And I'm not even sure how the Shinkansen can go to Kansai Airport - don't JR and Nankai already share the narrow gauge two-track right-of-way into Kansai?
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:32 AM   #1703
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Is there even any space at Umeda to build platforms for the Hokuriku Shinkansen?

And I'm not even sure how the Shinkansen can go to Kansai Airport - don't JR and Nankai already share the narrow gauge two-track right-of-way into Kansai?
A downtown Osaka station would obviously have to be underground, as would its approaches.

For that matter, it looks as though they are planning a new alignment between Kyoto and Osaka. While I would certainly agree that it might be necessary, where would it be placed?

A Shinkansen line to Kansai would likewise be a completely new right of way. Alternatively they could use GCT, or mini-Shinkansen. Not sure that Nankai would like that, though.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 05:26 AM   #1704
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Have they considered stacking a new Shinkansen line over an existing one? I don't think they have done this anywhere else but I don't see how it would be technically unfeasible. They did build a viaduct over the existing Tohoku Shinkansen line as part of the narrow-gauge Jukan Line in Tokyo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ueno%E2%80%93Tokyo_Line

In that sense they can opt for plan 2 to Kyoto Stationand then continue the Hokuriku Shinkansen for 50km down to Shin-Osaka Station by building the new viaduct over the existing one.

You would probably save lots of money on acquisition for a new right of way and for tunneling without impacting on the congested current services on the Tokaido Shinkansen.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 06:50 AM   #1705
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Have they considered stacking a new Shinkansen line over an existing one? I don't think they have done this anywhere else but I don't see how it would be technically unfeasible. They did build a viaduct over the existing Tohoku Shinkansen line as part of the narrow-gauge Jukan Line in Tokyo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ueno%E2%80%93Tokyo_Line

In that sense they can opt for plan 2 to Kyoto Stationand then continue the Hokuriku Shinkansen for 50km down to Shin-Osaka Station by building the new viaduct over the existing one.

You would probably save lots of money on acquisition for a new right of way and for tunneling without impacting on the congested current services on the Tokaido Shinkansen.
Interesting idea but it would become redundant after 2045 when Chuo Shinkansen is extended to Osaka from Nagoya.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 03:24 PM   #1706
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The Tokaido Shinkansen is jam-packed as-is. There simply isn't any room for any Hokuriku trains to be added anywhere.
Actually there is room. The Tokaido Shinkansen is the most heavily trafficked between Tokyo and Nagoya. West of Nagoya, however, service frequency thins out already. There are enough time gaps to squeeze in two or three additional services per hour to each of Shin-Osaka and Nagoya. At least Japanese railways should be able to do it.

The route via Maibara (option 3) looks to me the most preferable one. Not only is it the option with the shortest stretch of new line that needs to be built and maintained later on. It is also the only route which connects the north coast towns on the Hokuriku Shinkansen quickly to Nagoya as well.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 05:13 PM   #1707
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I wonder if that alignment requires some kind of three-way junction near Maibara or if they expect trains to turn around at Maibara and head towards Nagoya
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Old January 27th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #1708
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Something like this? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...le-diagram.svg
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Old January 27th, 2016, 11:34 PM   #1709
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Yes, that exactly!
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Old January 28th, 2016, 02:18 AM   #1710
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I wonder if they have enough space for that kind of intersection at Maibara?
In any case there is a fairly wide flat corridor between Maibara and Tsuruga in which extensive tunneling would not be necessary to construct this route.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 05:06 AM   #1711
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I think in the end, unless JR West is willing to fork up a LOT of money to upgrade the Tokaidō Shinkansen route between Maibara and Kyoto (e.g., going to possibly a quad-track layout), the Hokuriku Shinkansen route likely chosen from Tsuruga back to the Keihanshin region will be something that parallels the current JR West Kosei Line along the western shore of Lake Biwa, with the train terminating at Kyoto Station (along with a new line extension from the Hankyu Kyoto Line into Kyoto Station) so as passeger disembark from the Hokuriku Shinkansen train at Kyoto Station, they can transfer to JR West, Hankyu, and Kintetsu local/regional passenger service or transfer to Shinkansen trains heading west from Kyoto.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 11:37 AM   #1712
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It seems like such a waste not to have that Nagoya connectivity, though. Sure the Shinano provides adequate service north of Nagoya, but it still takes 4 hours or so to reach the Japan sea on that route (with a transfer in Nagano, of course).
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Old January 28th, 2016, 08:40 PM   #1713
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Test ride with the mass media between Shin-Hakodate-Hokuto and Kikkonai (35.5 km).

Quote:
Snow slows Hokkaido Shinkansen in test-ride



An H5-series Shinkansen train was put through its paces Jan. 28, two months before the start of the first high-speed rail service in Japan’s northernmost main island.

The test-ride was exclusively for media representatives.

The Hokkaido Railway Co. (JR Hokkaido) bullet train left Shin-Hakodate-Hokuto Station in Hokuto, Hokkaido, at 10 a.m. bound for Kikonai Station in Kikonai, Hokkaido, 35.5 kilometers south.

The train boasts a maximum speed of 260 kph, but kept to 210 kph during the test-ride because of snow on the tracks. It took 13 minutes to make the journey.

Although almost half of the route between the two stations passes through tunnels, the vast Tsugaru Strait that separates Hokkaido and the main island of Honshu comes into view as the train glides into Kikonai Station.

JR Hokkaido plans to open the Hokkaido Shinkansen Line on March 26. The line will link Shin-Hakodate-Hokuto Station to Tokyo Station via the Seikan tunnel underneath the Tsugaru Strait.

Round-trip test-rides along the same route for the public are scheduled for Feb. 13 and 14. A total of 3,000 passengers have been selected by a lottery from 28,302 applicants.
Asahi Shimbun







Also, a project from the MLIT about the problem of the traffic on the Seikan Tunnel. 'Train on train' idea detailed.

http://www.mlit.go.jp/common/001116788.pdf
http://www.mlit.go.jp/common/001116785.pdf
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Old January 29th, 2016, 06:12 AM   #1714
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If the "train on train" idea does become reality, my guess is that the loading/unloading points will be a new freight yard near the new Shin-Hakodate-Hokuto Station and the conversion of the Shin-Nakaoguni Signal Station tracks into a freight yard. These new "train on train" trainsets could travel as fast as 200 km/h, which will allow H5 trainsets to traverse the Seikan Tunnel at 200 km/h also.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 06:57 AM   #1715
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I think in the end, unless JR West is willing to fork up a LOT of money to upgrade the Tokaidō Shinkansen route between Maibara and Kyoto (e.g., going to possibly a quad-track layout), the Hokuriku Shinkansen route likely chosen from Tsuruga back to the Keihanshin region will be something that parallels the current JR West Kosei Line along the western shore of Lake Biwa, with the train terminating at Kyoto Station (along with a new line extension from the Hankyu Kyoto Line into Kyoto Station) so as passeger disembark from the Hokuriku Shinkansen train at Kyoto Station, they can transfer to JR West, Hankyu, and Kintetsu local/regional passenger service or transfer to Shinkansen trains heading west from Kyoto.
At the end which ever route the nation/JR west decides to take JR West is going to shoulder a large amount of money since ROW is going to be registered as JR West property/asset on the balance sheet and JR West will be required to pay back the money to the government in long term loans since JR West is a private institution and the government can't just donate something for free to them.

Same with realigning the Maibara route but the interconnecting junction will become JR Tokai's property/asset in which JR Tokai would need to repay to the government not JR West since Tokaido shinkansen is their ROW not JR West.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 01:02 PM   #1716
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How about having JR West take over the tracks between the hypothetical Maibara Junction and Shin-Osaka? They already run the corresponding zairaisen section...
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Old January 29th, 2016, 01:08 PM   #1717
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How about having JR West take over the tracks between the hypothetical Maibara Junction and Shin-Osaka? They already run the corresponding zairaisen section...
The Zairaisen are meter gauge and I don't think goes to Shin Osaka either.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 01:18 PM   #1718
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The Zairaisen are meter gauge and I don't think goes to Shin Osaka either.
JR Kyoto Line aka Tokaido Main Line stops at Shin-Osaka. And it's narrow gauge, not meter gauge...

And in case it wasn't clear, what I meant was to transfer ownership of the Tokaido Shinkansen between Maibara and Shin-Osaka to JR West in such a scenario.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 05:20 AM   #1719
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The Nagasaki Shinkansen is suppose to run on conventional cape gauge tracks between Takeo-Onsen and Shin-Tosu. Regardless of the problems to deliver gauge-changing trains for this purpose I wonder how trains are supposed to change from the Nagasaki Main Line to the Kyushu Shinkansen at Shin-Tosu. This isn't actually quite obvious. And why would they actually want to merge these trains onto the Shinkansen Main Line when Hakata station could be reach on conventional tracks as well?
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Old February 4th, 2016, 11:43 AM   #1720
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According to what it written on Wikipedia, then the section between Takeo-Onsen and Shin-Tosu on hold and that they are going to use the conventional line on that stretch. But at the same time it doesn't say anything how it's planned to connect to Hakata, which means that it's more likely to use the conventional rail line all the way to Hakata, since only the full specification Shinkansen Line would connect to Shin-Tosu.
And if you look on newer images on Google Earts of the area then you can clearly see that they have made good progress on several sections on the Nagasaki Shinkansen that is under construction.
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