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Old February 16th, 2009, 05:23 PM   #161
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A quick look on Google Earth can tell you that there is no connection between the two lines in Tokyo station. New Shinkansen sets are transported by road to the respective lines.

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Old February 16th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #162
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True. I was confused, I thought I saw it somewhere. Well, guess not
Transporting the carriages on the road must be quite a challenge considering Tōkyō's narrows streets and sometimes tight corners. But I guess they know the best route to bring it safely to the tracks
I've never seen a train being transported that way. Gotta look cool.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I've never seen a train being transported that way. Gotta look cool.
For Americans, it's the opposite. It's weird (and cool) to see trains being transported on rail (excepting flatbed railcars).

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Old February 16th, 2009, 11:30 PM   #164
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Old February 17th, 2009, 12:33 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Transporting the carriages on the road must be quite a challenge considering Tōkyō's narrows streets and sometimes tight corners. But I guess they know the best route to bring it safely to the tracks
I would assume that the train sets are delivered to depots well outside central Tokyo or central anywhere else.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 12:38 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FML View Post
To be fair, Shinkansen is particularly expensive as newer lines are essentially massive subways; something like 80% of whole line is underground, to go through the mountainous terrain, to avoid noise problem, and to avoid buying landed properties which would be even more expensive than making tunnels.
The only line that I can think of that has that much tunnel will be the planned Chuo Mag-lev Shinkansen. Existing lines have nowhere NEAR that much tunneling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
the New bullet trains look like Dolphins!
Yes... very fast ones.

I think it's one of those subjective things. Or it just grows on you. I think they actually used dolphins as a model. At those speeds cutting through air is similar to cutting through water.

Things in the natural world tend to be way more efficient than anything we dream up, so hey, why not try to mimic them.

I wonder if the next train will look like this:

source

Last edited by bluemeansgo; February 17th, 2009 at 01:07 AM.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 04:10 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huhu View Post
It's basically a question of either Europe or Asia. Us sad sack North Americans got nothing.
looool so true. It's too bad, not funny anymore.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FML View Post
Here are the estimated costs of current TGV/ICE/Shinkansen lines:
TGV (LGV Rhin-Rhône): 14 million USD per km
TGV (LGV Bretagne-Pays de la Loire): 33 million USD per km
ICE (Cologne–Frankfurt): 43 million USD per km
Shinkansen (Hokuriku, Kyushu): 70 million USD per km
To be fair, Shinkansen is particularly expensive as newer lines are essentially massive subways; something like 80% of whole line is underground, to go through the mountainous terrain, to avoid noise problem, and to avoid buying landed properties which would be even more expensive than making tunnels.
I don't bash Shinkansen. I do think it is one of, if not the best high-speed rail in the world, historically and technologically.
Nonetheless, it's natural many countries would choose something faster and cheaper - only those who has very busy corridor (thus need higher capacity) would seriously consider Japanese high-speed.
Did you at least check the terrain in wich those lines run thru ???

The 2 TGV railways are 100% countryside lines ... koln frankfurt is in the woods also ...

The projected stretch of the Lisboa-Madrid HSL in our side of the border will have a cost-per-km of only 7,5M€ (some 10 million USD per km) ... and it's a 350km/h HSL.


Shinkansen lines are what can be made in the area ... if the Japanese had suck huge and empty countrisides as we europeans they would be running Shinkansen at 1000km/h and the HSL could even be lined with golden bricks all the way ... and it would still cost less than current lines in japan (it's all in the terrain).
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Old February 17th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #169
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Old February 17th, 2009, 10:17 PM   #170
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From 'Railway Gazette'

'Series E5 design unveiled

17 Feb 2009


JAPAN: East Japan Railway unveiled the exterior and designs for its next generation of Shinkansen trains on February 3. A pre-production Series E5 trainset is due to be rolled out in June for testing, as a precursor for the fleet to operate between Tokyo and Shin Aomori following the opening of the extension from Hachinohe in December 2010.

JR-East's research programme launched in 2002 was looking at 360 km/h operation to bring the journey time for the 670 km Tokyo - Shin-Aomori trip below 3 h including intermediate stops, compared with 3 h 20 min with the current Series E2-1000 sets running at 275 km/h. After trials with the two Fastech 360 prototypes the railway announced that it was scaling back its ambitions and would build a pre-production trainset designed for a maximum of 320 km/h.

The railway subsequently ordered a fleet of 59 Series E5 trainsets, which are due to enter service in the spring of 2011. The 10-car sets will have eight powered vehicles and two trailers, and will feature a 'Super Green Car' with 2+1 seating for 18 passengers at the Aomori end. The trains will incorporate a number of technical advances from the Fastech 360 sets, including a lightweight pantograph, active suspensions and body tilting.'

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Old February 17th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #171
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I know what it reminds me of:

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Old April 11th, 2009, 07:04 PM   #172
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Japanese Trainmakers Eye Rail Boom

Japan trainmakers eye rail boom, wary on yen

TOKYO, April 8 (Reuters) - Japanese makers of railway rolling stock, such as Hitachi and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, are shifting some production overseas to tap growing infrastructure demand without getting hit by a strong yen.

Hitachi plans to build a plant in Britain, where it leads a consortium picked in February as preferred bidder to supply a large fleet of intercity trains, while Kawasaki Heavy produces most of its trains in the United States for orders there. It also hopes to have manufacturing bases in other countries.

Japan's near half-century experience with its bullet train system, with zero fatalities to date, puts the country's firms in a strong position to win orders in a global railway investment boom, analysts say.

But a strong yen could eat into profits made overseas, and analysts also say Japanese firms' share prices aren't likely to post meaningful gains until they actually cash in on the upturn.

The world's $165 billion rail market -- according to UNIFE, the association of the European rail industry -- is expected to grow at 2.0-2.5 percent a year over the next nine years, and the global recession could boost that as governments step up infrastructure spending to stimulate sagging economies.

Japanese manufacturers need to expand abroad as they face limited growth in rolling stock demand at home because of a mature train system and a shrinking population.

For companies like Hitachi, which expects a big loss last fiscal year, winning railway orders is crucial as the downturn batters its other sprawling operations that range from rice cookers and flat TVs to nuclear power plants.

"No doubt it's a business chance for the makers," said Merrill Lynch analyst Takahiro Mori. "Even after getting initial orders, there'll be a need for maintenance, then in the future, a need for replacement trains."

Japanese manufacturers have around a tenth of the global rolling stock market, behind Bombardier's 25 percent, Siemens' 20 percent and Alstom's 15 percent, according to business magazine Nikkei Business.

While the three leaders can offer packages of hardware and software, most Japanese manufacturers, including Kinki Sharyo, have to club together to provide necessary gears and services in full, and that has hindered them from increasing global share, said Merrill's Mori.

But, as more nations look to expand their high-speed rail networks, Japan's bullet train model can give it an edge.

"Quality and reliability are having more of an impact on competition now, and we couldn't imagine it before but now we are getting various offers from countries like Germany and Switzerland," said Shinya Mitsudomi, Hitachi's head of global transportation systems sales and marketing.

CURRENCY RISK

As the industry grows, the United States has earmarked $8 billion for high-speed rail development in an economic stimulus package, and President Barack Obama has proposed an additional five-year, $5 billion grant program for railways.

China and India are keen on rail spending, while railway investment is expected in Vietnam and Brazil, too. Britain and France have announced huge stimulus projects with specific allocations to beef up their rail infrastructure.

Tomomi Yamashita, fund manager at Shinkin Asset Management, said investors could turn a spotlight on train makers' shares once markets and manufacturers' other businesses recover.

"Investors can buy stocks on this theme. Share prices won't likely reflect that until investors actually expect growing demand to become a profit contributor, but the idea itself can be a reason to buy," he said.

Kawasaki Heavy trades about 32 times forward earnings, and Kinki Sharyo at around 14 times. For comparison, Bombardier's forward PE is 6, Siemens' 9 and Alstom's 11.

Train prices vary, but substantial orders generate big sales and can turn be long-term income streams with maintenance orders.

For example, Hitachi won a 50 billion yen ($498 million) contract in 2005 to provide 174 high-speed trains in Britain, with another 20 billion yen for a 7-year maintenance contract. Kawasaki's 140-train supply deal to New York City's subway was worth about 27 billion yen.

Mitsudomi said Hitachi is eyeing China and Britain, and plans to build a UK assembly plant with around 200 staff.

"In China, there are tremendous investments going on -- it's like many fish are swimming around -- and distance-wise, China is close," he said. "This market is where not only us but all the Japanese makers as well as foreign train makers are interested."

Kawasaki Heavy has taken around 40 percent of the high-speed rolling stock orders in China, beating Bombardier's 30 percent, according to Merrill Lynch.

To maximise earnings, the Japanese are having to minimse currency risk.

"We are trying to increase overseas sales, and we have to have a system which would not affect it even when the yen is very strong," said Kyohei Matsuoka, Kawasaki Heavy's managing executive officer who heads its rolling stock business.

"To compete globally, we have to have a big scale. And with that, we have to have financial strength to buffer a huge currency risk," he said. "On these points, we are still lagging companies like Siemens and Alstom." ($1=100.48 Yen) ($1=.7443 Euro)
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Old April 29th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #173
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Source : http://www.pbase.com/jameslclarke/trainsjapan05





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Old April 29th, 2009, 10:43 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FML View Post
Here are the estimated costs of current TGV/ICE/Shinkansen lines:
TGV (LGV Rhin-Rhône): 14 million USD per km
TGV (LGV Bretagne-Pays de la Loire): 33 million USD per km
ICE (Cologne–Frankfurt): 43 million USD per km
Shinkansen (Hokuriku, Kyushu): 70 million USD per km
To be fair, Shinkansen is particularly expensive as newer lines are essentially massive subways; something like 80% of whole line is underground, to go through the mountainous terrain, to avoid noise problem, and to avoid buying landed properties which would be even more expensive than making tunnels.
I don't bash Shinkansen. I do think it is one of, if not the best high-speed rail in the world, historically and technologically.
Nonetheless, it's natural many countries would choose something faster and cheaper - only those who has very busy corridor (thus need higher capacity) would seriously consider Japanese high-speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Did you at least check the terrain in wich those lines run thru ???
Maybe you didn't read my "To be fair..." part.

The current Shinkansen technology (which is, current Shinkansen lines in Japan) is naturally suitable to Japanese situation. European high speeds, on the other hand, are suitable to European situation. The "situation" here does not only refer to terrain, but also to riderships. Japanese can build the expensive system because of the relatively higher riderships, and that factor does not apply to many other parts of the world. (Of course, you could also say Japanese have no choice but to build the expensive system, because of the terrain. And that factor does not apply to many other parts of the world, either.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
if the Japanese had suck huge and empty countrisides as we europeans they would be running Shinkansen at 1000km/h and the HSL could even be lined with golden bricks all the way ... and it would still cost less than current lines in japan
Well, maybe. As I said in the previous post, I do think Shinkansen is technologically a great system, so it's quite possible the makers can make cheaper+faster system in less challenging environment. ...However, that's something we haven't seen yet. We don't call it Shinkansen, until it appears in reality. (Alstom or Giemens may be able to make Shinkansen-like system for Japan-like situation. But we don't call them TGV/ICE, until they appear in reality.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FML View Post
To be fair, Shinkansen is particularly expensive as newer lines are essentially massive subways; something like 80% of whole line is underground, to go through the mountainous terrain, to avoid noise problem, and to avoid buying landed properties which would be even more expensive than making tunnels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
The only line that I can think of that has that much tunnel will be the planned Chuo Mag-lev Shinkansen. Existing lines have nowhere NEAR that much tunneling.
Maybe "80%" is exaggerated, but the newer lines are something close to that.

Tohoku Shinkansen between Hachinohe and Aomori. These bordered sections are tunnels.


Hokuriku Shinkansen between Nagano and Toyama. Bold lines are tunnels.


Both are still under construction, but already existing newer sections of Tohoku Shinkansen (Morioka - Hachinohe) or Kyushu Shinkansen (Shin-Yatsushiro - Kagoshima-Chuo) aren't very different.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #175
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Gov't eyes 70 billion yen in extra spending on new bullet train lines
10 April 2009
Mainichi Daily News

The government is poised to set aside about 70 billion yen for the construction of new bullet train lines under the fiscal 2009 supplementary budget, it has emerged.

The measure, part of the ruling coalition' additional spending, is aimed at stimulating the economy by bringing forward work on sections of the new lines that are under construction, while allowing the lines to open at the scheduled time.

Five new bullet train sections are under construction: Hachinohe to Shin-Aomori (to open in December 2010), Shin-Aomori to Shin-Hakodate (to be completed at the end of fiscal 2015), Nagano to Kanazawa (to be completed at the end of fiscal 2014), Hakata to Shin-Yatsushiro (to be completed at the end of fiscal 2010), and Takeo-Onsen to Isahaya (to be completed in about 2018).

The central government and local bodies share the cost of construction of the new lines at a 2:1 ratio, with the state covering the larger amount. Accordingly, local bodies situated along train lines face a new financial burden apart from the national government's spending under the supplementary budget. However, subsidies to lessen the financial burden of local bodies will be established under additional economic measures, and local bodies will be able to allocate the subsidies to construction of the new Shinkansen lines.

The overall cost of constructing the five sections is expected to be about 410 billion yen more than originally planned due to rising material costs. Additional construction expense funding provided through the supplementary budget will indirectly cover part of this additional cost.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #176
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I would imagine the Shinkensen costs a whole lot more because it's completely grade separated throughout it's entire journey. TVG/ICE runs on the ground, the Shinkensen runs on bridges. I figure this is mostly done due to going over urban areas, going around mountains with less up and down, and also for earthquakes (I dunno is it safer to have a bridge that can rattle, or a track on the ground that can snap?).

Building the endless bridges that the shinkensen runs on costs a LOT of money.
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Old May 1st, 2009, 03:32 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epi View Post
I would imagine the Shinkensen costs a whole lot more because it's completely grade separated throughout it's entire journey. TVG/ICE runs on the ground, the Shinkensen runs on bridges. I figure this is mostly done due to going over urban areas, going around mountains with less up and down, and also for earthquakes (I dunno is it safer to have a bridge that can rattle, or a track on the ground that can snap?).

Building the endless bridges that the shinkensen runs on costs a LOT of money.
Maybe that's the answer:






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Old May 1st, 2009, 03:58 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superchan7 View Post
Japan's definitely got their HSR train styling under control.

Oh wait, there's the N700...and the Fastech....nevermind.
At least, the export model EFSET from Kawasaki seems to looks better. Or better suited to our western taste.





Oh, and it's faster than the shinkansen too.
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Old May 1st, 2009, 05:57 PM   #179
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A funny thing is that both Shinkensen and ICE will run at the under construction Beijing-Shanghai HSR line. Both of them are running at Beijing-Tianjin line for one year, max speed is 350km/h.
The 1400km 350km/h totally elevated Beijing-Shanghai line cost RMB 170 billion, 17 million USD per km, so cheap!
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Old May 1st, 2009, 06:23 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epi View Post
I would imagine the Shinkensen costs a whole lot more because it's completely grade separated throughout it's entire journey. TVG/ICE runs on the ground, the Shinkensen runs on bridges. I figure this is mostly done due to going over urban areas, going around mountains with less up and down, and also for earthquakes (I dunno is it safer to have a bridge that can rattle, or a track on the ground that can snap?).

Building the endless bridges that the shinkensen runs on costs a LOT of money.
The main reason why the Shinkansen uses many bridges lies in the terrain and the extensive land use of Japan. A big part of the country is covered by mountains, the Shinkansen doesn't go round them but uses tunnels to go trough them. The mountains are not the reason why the Shinkansen is build on bridges. But because of the mountains every single bit of land that is flat is used for agriculture or has been turned into an urban area. This means that the land prices are high and that there are many local roads and railroads that should be crossed by the Shinkansen.

Building the lines high means less impact on the ground. It uses less valuable land and there's no need to build new costly costly tunnels and bridges over under the line for the local infrastructure.

A comparison with Beijing-Shanghai cannot be really made because the land prices and labor costs are so much lower in China then in Japan. Plus the line is build through the flat coastal areas, so there's no need for expensive tunnels.

@Papacu

High Speed Lines never have level crossings and since the Shinkansen is 100% high speed.... you should be able to do the math. And there aren't many heard of sheep in Japan, the chances that something like the accident in Germany ever happens is very very very small. Not to mention that it happened in a tunnel, if an accident like this should happen in Japan it would also happen in a tunnel. There's still a point were a line goes from a viaduct into a tunnel, so there will always be places were animals can walk onto the tracks if someone didn't close a fence for example.

So it was a bit useless to post those accident pictures.
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