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Old October 1st, 2016, 08:17 PM   #1901
Sr.Horn
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Only the 100 series G series from 1988, and 100N / V series / 100-3000 used on Grand Hikari service from 1990 had double decker cars.

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Old October 1st, 2016, 08:42 PM   #1902
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And the 200 H sets.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 09:24 AM   #1903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
There is something I do not understand. On page 43 of the Annual Report 2016 puts the Shinkansen rolling stock traveled 981 million km, which is divided by 133 trains an average of 7.38 million km each train, which would be 20,153 km daily, for which it would take almost 100 hours. Something is wrong.
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... It should be like that by my count, 981 million km should be divided between 15: about 85 million km. Either that, or is that the calculator has gone to my head, which is most likely.
The figures in the report are annual car-km. So you need to divide by 16 first.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 10:33 AM   #1904
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Average occupancy and almost planned obsolescence

Thank you very much!
They could put it on the graphic : I almost burned my calculator
I figured it would have to be split between 15 ... almost.

Well, then we have the 133 JR Central Shinkansen trains in 2015 runs 61.31 million kilometers with an average of 460,996 km per year each train or what is the same, 1,260 km a day each train.

As all trains have 1,323 seats it is that the offer would be 81,116 million available seats-kilometers, since demand was 52,166 million passengers-kilometers would be an average occupancy (passengers-kilometers / seats-kilometers) 64,31%; the average throughout the Shinkansen trains was of 59.27% in 2012 (source: Performance and efficiency of high-speed rail systems).

Moreover, I would point out that 60 trains 700C series entered service between 1999 and 2005, and in 2016 there are only 28, which is not to be a novelty in the Shinkansen trains although the rest of the world. Almost seems planned obsolescence.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 03:17 PM   #1905
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I have no idea whether it's planned obsolescence or just that the trains undergo large amount of stress when running at so high capacities at high speeds.

Besides, unlike the average consumer and their iPhone, the JR companies have so high profit margins that they can just afford to buy new trains instead, and it also helps provide a steady stream of projects to the Japanese car builders, creating jobs for the Japanese economy, so why not?
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 11:51 PM   #1906
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The argument for the "not" would be that with a fully-amortized Tokaido line, the price charged to users could get lower. Most riders on Tokyo-Osaka pay $140, and the best available price for locals is for slow kodamas at $100.

But instead, JR Central keeps scrapping trainsets to buy new ones, and spends large amounts of money to reach 99.99% reliability instead of 99.9%. That's good for the railway industry, but perhaps not as much for the public at large.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 02:07 AM   #1907
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The argument for the "not" would be that with a fully-amortized Tokaido line, the price charged to users could get lower. Most riders on Tokyo-Osaka pay $140, and the best available price for locals is for slow kodamas at $100.

But instead, JR Central keeps scrapping trainsets to buy new ones, and spends large amounts of money to reach 99.99% reliability instead of 99.9%. That's good for the railway industry, but perhaps not as much for the public at large.
Exactly.
Their very protectionist stance toward those train purchases makes it a very bad decision to export their model. (India, US, Thailand comes to mind)
All trains have to be bought from a single manufacturer which makes it very expensive.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 03:32 AM   #1908
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I never can understand the sentiment that shinkansen train tickets are expensive. They are priced at walkup rates, which is better than the walkup rates on high speed train tickets on rail systems where yield management is used. The advantage (and customer friendly aspect of this) is that business users, who are the primary users of the service on weekdays, are not penalized with exorbitant prices. It also encourages "on the spur of the moment" casual travel, such as on weekends, especially for those also considering the airlines. Another thing, is that the big JR companies are for-profit enterprises (and unlike the government run networks in other countries), and thus have no pressure other than the market to keep prices as they are. If one cannot afford the price of a shinkansen ticket, there are the numerous highway buses than run frequently, some of which are run by the railway itself.

Finally, export prices are competitive with products from other first world industrialized countries, and often include generous financing packages which the European makers don't offer. If you want cheap, buy Chinese. Caveat emptor in that case, of course.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 04:43 AM   #1909
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Quote:
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. It also encourages "on the spur of the moment" casual travel, such as on weekends, especially for those also considering the airlines. Another thing, is that the big JR companies are for-profit enterprises (and unlike the government run networks in other countries), and thus have no pressure other than the market to keep prices as they are. If one cannot afford the price of a shinkansen ticket, there are the numerous highway buses than run frequently, some of which are run by the railway itself.
One thing I also like to add is that foreigners can also buy the JR Rail Pass (about 200USD?). that allows them to use the shinkansen as much as they want (most lines) for a week!
It's totally unfair. The best I can get for unlimited rides is the seishun 18, and that's hella slow.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 05:48 AM   #1910
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Most European HSR trains won't work on Shinkansen lines anyways due to their slower acceleration speed which would mess-up the time schedule ultimately hurting the overall capacity.
No JR is going to introduce a trainset that is going to limit their capacity for the sake of saving a few dimes.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 09:21 AM   #1911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
I never can understand the sentiment that shinkansen train tickets are expensive. They are priced at walkup rates, which is better than the walkup rates on high speed train tickets on rail systems where yield management is used. The advantage (and customer friendly aspect of this) is that business users, who are the primary users of the service on weekdays, are not penalized with exorbitant prices. It also encourages "on the spur of the moment" casual travel, such as on weekends, especially for those also considering the airlines. Another thing, is that the big JR companies are for-profit enterprises (and unlike the government run networks in other countries), and thus have no pressure other than the market to keep prices as they are. If one cannot afford the price of a shinkansen ticket, there are the numerous highway buses than run frequently, some of which are run by the railway itself.

Finally, export prices are competitive with products from other first world industrialized countries, and often include generous financing packages which the European makers don't offer. If you want cheap, buy Chinese. Caveat emptor in that case, of course.
Exactly. I am very much in favour of there being no yield management, and not only that I really think that the Shinkansen is not bad value at all. Even my relatives from China when we took it were surprised at how little we paid compared to the HSR in Italy, which was very expensive.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 11:55 AM   #1912
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Duration of each series

Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
I have no idea whether it's planned obsolescence or just that the trains undergo large amount of stress when running at so high capacities at high speeds.

Besides, unlike the average consumer and their iPhone, the JR companies have so high profit margins that they can just afford to buy new trains instead, and it also helps provide a steady stream of projects to the Japanese car builders, creating jobs for the Japanese economy, so why not?
Yes, it is primarily fatigue of material (constant tunnels input and output at high speeds) and lower costs in the most modern trains.
I have not attempted to criticize.

Other cases:

The first series O entered service in 1964-1966 until 1999. Maximum: 33 years.
0 series: from 1969 to 1986 to 2008. Some trains: 22 years. (not worth counting of 1969/2008, the first manufactured are the first to unsubscribe, and I have no data to know the average length).
100 series: 1986/91 to 1999/2012. Some 21; in 2005 there were 22 of 66, so 44 lasted less than 19 years. The most: 23.
200 series: from 1982 to 1986 until 2013. Some 27; in 2005 there were 13 of 66, so 53 lasted less than 23 years. Only in theory one could reach a maximum of 31.
300 series: 1992/98 to 2007/12 (yes it is). Some 14 years, only in theory one could reach a maximum of 20. In 2005 there were 69 of 70, in 2009: 45 and in 2011: 29.
400 series: 1992/95 to 2008/10. It seems planned obsolescence: 15 years.
E1, 1994/95 series until 2012. 17/18.
The 500 series (1997/98) continues to circulate, the 9 trains manufactured are 8. But each train of eight cars, instead of the original 16.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 01:08 PM   #1913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Exactly. I am very much in favour of there being no yield management, and not only that I really think that the Shinkansen is not bad value at all. Even my relatives from China when we took it were surprised at how little we paid compared to the HSR in Italy, which was very expensive.
Italy uses yield management so you can get tickets for a very good price when buying ahead. I got a Naples-Rome ticket for €15.6 this summer on the Italo Treno.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 01:50 PM   #1914
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Most European HSR trains won't work on Shinkansen lines anyways due to their slower acceleration speed which would mess-up the time schedule ultimately hurting the overall capacity.
No JR is going to introduce a trainset that is going to limit their capacity for the sake of saving a few dimes.
Aha! "most". That they write a tender and see who replies, then you can select on specs and price.
Just stating that "European HSR trains won't work on Shinkansen lines anyways due to their slower acceleration speed" is BS.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 05:08 PM   #1915
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Quote:
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The argument for the "not" would be that with a fully-amortized Tokaido line, the price charged to users could get lower. Most riders on Tokyo-Osaka pay $140, and the best available price for locals is for slow kodamas at $100.

But instead, JR Central keeps scrapping trainsets to buy new ones, and spends large amounts of money to reach 99.99% reliability instead of 99.9%. That's good for the railway industry, but perhaps not as much for the public at large.
You seem to forget that JR Central is already struggling to satisfy demand on this line. Lowering ticket prices would increase demand on tickets and therefore escalate the problem. This is not only undesirable but also unpractical.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 05:12 PM   #1916
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Italy uses yield management so you can get tickets for a very good price when buying ahead. I got a Naples-Rome ticket for €15.6 this summer on the Italo Treno.
Yeah, I know and we took advantage of that somewhat by buying a couple of weeks ahead of time, but we should have booked further in advance of course. But the fact remains that this is very inconvenient for those who cannot plan ahead. As they say, the walkup prices are obscene and on that front, I think that the JR companies are much more friendly in terms of occasional and incidental travellers than European HSR companies are. Yield management is the pits.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 11:40 AM   #1917
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Aha! "most". That they write a tender and see who replies, then you can select on specs and price.
Just stating that "European HSR trains won't work on Shinkansen lines anyways due to their slower acceleration speed" is BS.
How did this conversation become one of protectionism? Say JR Tokai proposed an open bidding for rolling stock (despite owning a rolling stock builder in Nippon Sharyo)- would any European builders be willing to set up a facility in Japan, staff it with experts, and provide the very high standards of maintenance (actually the highest in the world) required over the long term of twenty years? Japanese rolling stock builders bend over backwards to satisfy the needs of local customers in North America (by spending millions or even billions on local factories and employing local people and custom designing for the market to satisfy byzantine government regulations that can seen as non-tariff barriers) as well as in Europe (Hitachi Newton Aycliffe in the UK). You can't expect Japanese railways to accept European products merely because UIC is "THE world standard- take it or leave it" attitude that seems to be the sentiment.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 01:36 PM   #1918
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Didn't Tokyu start out as a license builder for the Budd Company?

But of course the opposing argument is that Japanese and Western rail expectations have diverged considerably...
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Old October 4th, 2016, 05:02 PM   #1919
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With Budd, the licensing agreements were centered around Budd's proprietary "shot-weld" techniques for working with Stainless Steel. The resulting vehicles are insanely durable and sturdy. Even today, Amtrak continues to operate equipment from the 1940s that was made by Budd, and cascaded stock from Tokyu continues to run elsewhere.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:23 PM   #1920
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Well, I hope the European builders will never design a Japanese train. The visual appearance of the Shinkansen is so much better. Unmatched by the European high speed trains.
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