Chicago Casino..Where and how - Page 2

BFA · May 29th, 2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

I like the Chicago casino idea, but if it's built anywhere OTHER than downtown, it will become the kind of seedy place everybody wants to avoid.

About 7-8 months ago I went out to the Elgin casinos for the first time -- unless I was blind to it, I didn't see any seediness to them -- in fact, I saw a bunch of really nice townhomes within 500 yards of the enterance.

Nat76 · May 30th, 2007, 12:49 AM

As luck would have it, we're I actually got put on a casino deal for work a couple of years ago. I'm not getting into proprietary stuff here, just information I received that you could get elsewhere. This is straight from the mouth of a gaming exec and publicly-available info:

1-Casinos don't make as much money as you think they do. For every $1 you lose at a casino, the state takes 25-30 cents in gaming taxes (depending upon the state). Another 55-60 cents or so is eaten by operating costs. That only leaves about 15 cents profit, pre-tax, and Uncle Sam and the state tax another 40% of that. Bottom line: they don't make a lot of money for the up-front costs that are sunk, but they do bring in more than standard tourism for the state due to gaming taxation.

2-If a casino was launched in the city, rents and/or owned infrastructure would be higher, therefore lower profits. This means they've got to make their money elsewhere, which would be a resort-style place w/ other amenities like high-end restaurants, hotel, lounges, etc. There really isn't another way. You've got to maximize revenue/square foot and the only way to do that is through other services to keep more people there longer.

3-If you don't offer something different, no one will drive to a more convenient location to gamble. If I live in Naperville, I'm not going into the city to gamble, pay for parking, etc. I'm going to Joliet. Similarly, if I'm in town, I won't be a repeat customer if I can get the same experience back home in Iowa, Wisconsin, etc.

4-Riverboats are a bust. No one wants to be trapped on a boat in the middle of the water. They want to be able to come/go as they please. Mobile riverboats lose money. In addition, fixed riverboats/barges don't work either. The floorplate isn't sufficient. The most profitable trend is one open floor. A large floorplate is essential.

5-Multiple casinos in one location are used to keep away/segment competition, but these require multiple licenses. If licenses are limited, you would never put two casinos/buildings offering the same experience together.

6-You've got to put it where people can see it. A highway is ideal, but road construction can kill a highway location. One extensive highway project can bankrupt a casino.

A lot of this is common sense, but I thought it was interesting when I went back and looked at some of my notes. I think from a location standpoint, downtown obviously is the most desirable if you're looking for a different experience. The question for an operator is which is cheaper: a 20-year lease on public property like McPier/Northerly or leasing/owning land someplace else downtown. From a civic standpoint, I think the question is: what is the best use of cetain parcel of land. The city may opt to keep the riverfront near Roosevelt barren in the hopes of office/residential development. A place like McPier/Northerly or even Goose Island (highway visibility) might be viewed as less "developable".

edsg25 · May 31st, 2007, 12:49 PM

the state's decison about a downtown Chgo casino should be less about making a profit and more about adding another crown jewel to the list of downtown attractions. its profitability will come because it adds more to the total package downtown rather than it being a run away success.

edsg25 · May 31st, 2007, 12:52 PM

If Chicago (and the state) want to know what it would be like to have one major casino in town and near the heart of the city, don't we simply have to look what is going on a mere 90 miles north of us?

Pottawatomi Casino is a cash cow in Milwaukee. The already huge facility is in the process of doubling its size. And despite the availability of casino gambling on the Fox River and the Lake Co (IN) lakefront right in our back yard, Chicago area residents still visit it in droves.

Wouldn't you think that Pottawatomi gives us some picture of what that lone Chicago casino might look like...and how successful it might be?

edsg25 · May 31st, 2007, 12:54 PM

How much of an element of class would it be if our one casino was modeled physcially after Monte Carlo (as opposed to Vegas or AC)????

Mr Downtown · May 31st, 2007, 04:02 PM

Not as much as if we specified that our casino patrons had to look like those in Monaco.

edsg25 · May 31st, 2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Not as much as if we specified that our casino patrons had to look like those in Monaco.

bring back Princess Grace.

Nat76 · June 1st, 2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edsg25

the state's decison about a downtown Chgo casino should be less about making a profit and more about adding another crown jewel to the list of downtown attractions. its profitability will come because it adds more to the total package downtown rather than it being a run away success.

You're right, but the operator needs some assurance of the ability to turn a decent profit. That will only happen with a high-end product because land leasing/ownership, and capital projects in the city eat more of the bottom line.

I think your Milwaukee example is a good one. They built in a more expensive area, added more table games, entertainment, and better dining options than the typical Midwest casino. Chicago will need to do even better than that to make this viable.

It would never fly, but I'd like to see a sports book added to a downtown casino.

edsg25 · June 1st, 2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat76

You're right, but the operator needs some assurance of the ability to turn a decent profit. That will only happen with a high-end product because land leasing/ownership, and capital projects in the city eat more of the bottom line.

I think your Milwaukee example is a good one. They built in a more expensive area, added more table games, entertainment, and better dining options than the typical Midwest casino. Chicago will need to do even better than that to make this viable.

It would never fly, but I'd like to see a sports book added to a downtown casino.

and let's not forget that Milwaukee added value to the area surrounding Pottawatomi, as well.

Nat, I sometimes think people miss the point on projects like ball parks and casinos. They often are profitable to a city in ways other than the revenue they earn. And those pay-off's are intangible to the degree that you can't put a dollar-and-cents figure to them, but they definitely are making financial contributions in ways we may not always be able to observe.

Question though: isn't a sports book the reason for a reluctance to put a pro franchise of any sport into Vegas? I thought such things are discouraging to all the leagues. However, i'm no expert and could very well be wrong.

Nat76 · June 3rd, 2007, 10:44 AM

I totally agree with you on the benefits extending beyond the project and revenues itself, but the guys ponying up the cash to build and operate won't see it that way. If Harrah's or another operator gets the license and go ahead to build downtown, they're not going to take on the risk to break even. If the city wants to use this as a development tool in a marginal area of the city, then they will need to give someone a sweetheart deal on the land.

To answer your question on the sportsbook issue, yes, that is one of the big reservations pro leagues have with Las Vegas. Another issue is just the general seediness that goes with vegas--the quantity of gambling, clubs, legalized prostitution just outside the city, organized crime risks. It could be a PR nightmare without the implication of fixing. Nevada is the only state in the country with sports betting, but things have been changing.

The NBA held their all-star game there this year, and there has been a lot of talk about a franchise in Vegas. Offshore betting has become huge, so it's not Vegas-centric anymore anyway. Players also make a ton of money today so their economic incentive to fix isn't as prevalent. Is a guy making millions going to fix a score to make millions with all of the risks associated with that?

nomarandlee · June 3rd, 2007, 10:46 PM

I don't know if I would want sports betting or not, if Chicago did decide to allow the chances of the NFL, MLB, and NBA pulling out the the Bears/Cubs-Sox/Bulls out of the third largest market in the country is next to nill.

brewcityfan · June 6th, 2007, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edsg25

If Chicago (and the state) want to know what it would be like to have one major casino in town and near the heart of the city, don't we simply have to look what is going on a mere 90 miles north of us?

Pottawatomi Casino is a cash cow in Milwaukee. The already huge facility is in the process of doubling its size. And despite the availability of casino gambling on the Fox River and the Lake Co (IN) lakefront right in our back yard, Chicago area residents still visit it in droves.

Wouldn't you think that Pottawatomi gives us some picture of what that lone Chicago casino might look like...and how successful it might be?

As the Milwaukeeian that randomly makes a comment here and there

I'd like to say to Chicago - please leave the nice fancy casinos to us! Potowatomi Bingo and Casino in the River Valley near downtown Milwaukee is indeed booming, and ed is right about it expanding to near double its size. The unfortunate part of the casino is its right to withhold payments to the city and the state whenever it sees fit. That's why our governor stood to support a mega-casino in Kenosha by the Menominee tribe (with the help of success-story Conn. Mohegian tribe). Milwaukee needs to be an attraction for something! I've always been one wondering why Milwaukee doesn't land more casinos in The Valley (where Potowatomi is located). From the H-D Museum to Miller Park - it would have been a grand entertainment/gambling district, and we'd get more of your money!

nomarandlee · June 12th, 2007, 06:09 PM

..

Quote:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/4...sino12.article
Should we push our luck?
Chicago area already ranks No. 3 in gambling -- with more casinos proposed
June 12, 2007
BY CHRIS FUSCO AND WHITNEY WOODWARD Staff Reporters

Slot machines and blackjack tables apparently have become a Chicago area tradition just like pizza, skyscrapers and the blues:

For the fifth straight year, casinos in the Chicago market rank No. 3 in the United States behind Las Vegas and Atlantic City in terms of gambling revenues.

Four casinos in Elgin, Aurora and Joliet joined five in northwest Indiana in raking in nearly $2.6 billion last year, according to an analysis by the Innovation Group, a hospitality consulting firm. That sum paled next to the $6.6-billion plus collected on the Las Vegas Strip, but it blew away the likes of Reno, Detroit and New Orleans.

The Chicago area's most recent appearance near the top of the annual list comes at a critical time: Illinois lawmakers are considering creating four new casino licenses -- including one within Chicago itself -- and expanding the size of existing casinos.

Additionally, a long-defunct casino license once slated to go to northwest suburban Rosemont could be sold within the next year or two, potentially bringing the number of new Chicagoland casinos to five.

Some lawmakers in Springfield see new casinos as a fix to the state's cash crunch because they'd generate hundreds of millions of dollars in new gambling taxes.

But if Chicagoland already is No. 3 in the national casino marketplace, how much more gambling can the region handle?

Moreover, would the potential social costs -- including gambling addiction and crime -- outweigh the benefits?

State Rep. Brent Hassert (R-Romeoville), the ranking Republican in the House Gaming Committee, urged lawmakers to "proceed with more caution" and not create a handful of casinos in the Chicago area.

"I think that it can become very quickly a liability," Hassert said. "Competition's usually not a bad thing, but when you're talking about something as unique as gambling, you have a saturation point, you do have a certain limit. . . . And socially, we have to draw a line at what's acceptable and what's not acceptable."

Gambling expansion proposals traditionally have crumbled under their own weight in Springfield, and the four-casino bill that recently cleared the Senate could do just that. The House has yet to consider it.

What would Indiana do?
The Illinois Casino Gaming Association, which represents existing Illinois casinos, prefers a scaled-back proposal, said Tom Swoik, the group's executive director. "When you're adding that much, we're worried about saturation," he said.
And that doesn't even begin to address concerns about how Indiana lawmakers might respond to a barrage of new casinos in Illinois.

Indiana already has larger casinos than those in Illinois -- a function of Illinois capping the size of its casinos to 1,200 "gaming positions" each. Still, the Indiana casinos in the Chicago market took in about the same amount, about $1.3 million, as their counterparts in Illinois last year, according to the Innovation Group.

State Rep. Lou Lang (D-Skokie), a longtime advocate for more gambling opportunities in Illinois, wasn't surprised to hear the Chicagoland gambling market ranks No. 3 in the country.

"There's nothing inherently evil by that," he said. "And all I think it does is prove my point that we have an opportunity -- without doing anything that isn't already legal under the law -- to create economic development and expansion for our revenue base in the state of Illinois and put a lot of people to work."

pwalker · June 13th, 2007, 02:41 AM

This whole thread is interesting, but makes me wonder where the saturation point may be. At what point will there be too many casinos, or will there never be enough to satisfy this craving that many Americans have to drop money into machines that over time will never give it back to them?

I think Las Vegas is a poor model for Chicago. People go to Vegas for the overall experience, not just to gamble. Milwaukee and Detroit are better models as to what a downtown Chicago casino might turn out to be. The casinos in downtown Detroit are less than glamorous. Milwaukee's is nicer, but again, beyond the gambling, what is the draw? In the far suburbs, Aurora, Elgin, and Joliet seem to draw lots of locals, (who all seem to be heavy smokers btw,) many who probably would spend their money elsewhere if it were not for the two bills they dropped in the machines that night. (And two bills is a conservative estimate!).

Gambling has gone through cycles throughout US history. It gets big, then it gets severely controlled, then slowly builds up, then gets shut down again. Guess where where we are in the cycle right now?

Nat76 · June 13th, 2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker

This whole thread is interesting, but makes me wonder where the saturation point may be. At what point will there be too many casinos, or will there never be enough to satisfy this craving that many Americans have to drop money into machines that over time will never give it back to them?

I think Las Vegas is a poor model for Chicago. People go to Vegas for the overall experience, not just to gamble. Milwaukee and Detroit are better models as to what a downtown Chicago casino might turn out to be. The casinos in downtown Detroit are less than glamorous. Milwaukee's is nicer, but again, beyond the gambling, what is the draw? In the far suburbs, Aurora, Elgin, and Joliet seem to draw lots of locals, (who all seem to be heavy smokers btw,) many who probably would spend their money elsewhere if it were not for the two bills they dropped in the machines that night. (And two bills is a conservative estimate!).

Gambling has gone through cycles throughout US history. It gets big, then it gets severely controlled, then slowly builds up, then gets shut down again. Guess where where we are in the cycle right now?

There is always a saturation point. Gambling doesn't really appeal to me, but the business side of it fascinates me.

I agree that Chicago won't do a Vegas-style place, but it also shouldn't do an Elgin-style place. A true urban casino should be the goal, and that will require a bit of Vegas and a bit of Monaco. It should be bigger than anything in Europe however. People get an image of Monte Carlo, etc, but the casino out in Joliet is actually bigger than any in Europe. The main way around saturation is to provide an experience you can't get in Vegas, the rest of the US, or Europe, and I think this should be the ultimate goal.

Moonraker · June 13th, 2007, 01:23 PM

It would be a shame to litter the Chicago Lakefront with a Casino (gaudy, decadent, sleazy... but a money generator). How about a location along the river south of River City and finally give that area a boost?

edsg25 · June 13th, 2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewcityfan

As the Milwaukeeian that randomly makes a comment here and there

I'd like to say to Chicago - please leave the nice fancy casinos to us! Potowatomi Bingo and Casino in the River Valley near downtown Milwaukee is indeed booming, and ed is right about it expanding to near double its size. The unfortunate part of the casino is its right to withhold payments to the city and the state whenever it sees fit. That's why our governor stood to support a mega-casino in Kenosha by the Menominee tribe (with the help of success-story Conn. Mohegian tribe). Milwaukee needs to be an attraction for something! I've always been one wondering why Milwaukee doesn't land more casinos in The Valley (where Potowatomi is located). From the H-D Museum to Miller Park - it would have been a grand entertainment/gambling district, and we'd get more of your money!

brew, for vast areas of Chicagoland.....certainly Lake County but much of northern Cook as well....Pottawtomi would be a more likely choice for a day (or night) of gaming than a DT Chicago location. A Chicago casino will make little dent in the numbers of people driving north of the state line to throw their money away. And the expanded Pottawatomi will be a real attractiion.

So relax.

nomarandlee · July 14th, 2007, 06:51 AM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...l=chi-news-hed

Lawmakers look to gambling
'No name-calling' but deadlock on budget remains

By Jeffery Meitrodt and Ray Long
Tribune staff reporters
Published July 14, 2007

SPRINGFIELD—Gov. Rod Blagojevich and legislative leaders focused Friday on expanding gambling as a potential way to help them reach a budget accord and break their deadlock, now in its seventh week.

Blagojevich is willing to look at expanded gambling as a way to increase education spending and pay for capital projects such as schools, roads and bridges, said Deputy Gov. Sheila Nix, who participated in negotiations.

But the governor is not backing down on his desire to launch a state-subsidized health-care plan, Nix said. He still hopes to raise revenue to pay for that plan separately, such as with a tax on employers who do not supply health care to workers and through eliminating some business tax breaks, she said.

The scope of any gambling expansion—including how many more casinos, if any—is among the unresolved questions. And many lawmakers are skeptical, both of the gambling and health-care ideas, because some of the governor's funding proposals have fallen flat.

House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) cautioned after the latest negotiating session that he "wouldn't put a lot of hope on" gambling legislation, saying the wide-ranging meeting offered little to report.

Madigan, who has called on the governor to tone down harsh criticism of fellow Democrats, revealed a "good news aspect to this meeting. There was no name-calling."

Yet Madigan went on the offensive earlier Friday in interviews with WGN-AM 720's Spike O'Dell and WFLD-Ch. 32.

"It's a case of failed leadership before the General Assembly," Madigan said of the governor in a taping for Fox Chicago Sunday, which airs at 8 a.m. Sunday on WFLD-Ch. 32. "He has failed because of his leadership style, a style which is not designed to bring people together. Rather it's designed to tear them apart, and that's what he's attempting to do."

While the governor has pledged to keep lawmakers in Springfield until a budget is resolved, they all decided to take off Sunday and return Monday.

rlong@tribune.com

jmeitrodt@tribune.com

Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune

nomarandlee · August 7th, 2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

More bets placed on a Chicago casino
SPRINGFIELD | GOP warming to plan, but Madigan's not buying it

August 7, 2007
BY DAVE MCKINNEY, WHITNEY WOODWARD AND CHRIS FUSCO Staff Reporters
SPRINGFIELD -- A Chicago casino gained newfound momentum Monday after House Republicans -- for the first time -- showed "strong interest" in a Chicago casino to fund schools, state construction and the cash-strapped CTA.

"There is a . . . good bit of interest -- even more than I thought -- to go down this road," said House Minority Leader Tom Cross (R-Oswego), who said a new city casino and an expansion of existing casinos could fund up to a $10 billion capital program.

.....Gov. Blagojevich, Senate Democrats, and Republicans in both chambers have shown support for tying a capital program to a city casino, isolating House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) as the lone potential obstacle to the first major state building program in eight years...........

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...-leg07.article

edsg25 · August 8th, 2007, 08:17 PM

Here's one definite:

a Chicago casino, if built, will not be for built for Chicagoans. And rightuflly so. Parking in the DT area would be exhorbatant. The Lake Co. (IN) boats are too close by to the city anyway and suburbanites will still head out to the Fox River Valley and free parking...or even up to the fewer hassles they find at Pottawatomi in Milw (once its massive construction project is over).

The Chicago casino would be built to tap into the tourist/convention trade and augment what is offered to out-of-towners in the central part of the city.

Thus it would be far more high end, high roller in nature than the casinos that draw from the local communities.

June 3rd, 2007, 10:46 PM	#31
nomarandlee My Mind Has Left My Body Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake Posts: 7,120 Likes (Received): 119	I don't know if I would want sports betting or not, if Chicago did decide to allow the chances of the NFL, MLB, and NBA pulling out the the Bears/Cubs-Sox/Bulls out of the third largest market in the country is next to nill. __________________ -young middle-class lad or lass who feels elated by thinking that he or she has covered all aspects of politics and religion with the help of a few lectures by a certified conspiracy crank or by watching a straight-to-YouTube ‘documentary’. - Nadeem F. Paracha Its the buddhist in you, it's the pagan in me. Its the muslim in him, she's catholic aint she? Its the born again look it's the wasp and the jew Tell me what's goin on, I aint gotta clue - Jimmy Buffett

July 14th, 2007, 06:51 AM	#38
nomarandlee My Mind Has Left My Body Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake Posts: 7,120 Likes (Received): 119	Lawmakers look to gambling http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...l=chi-news-hed Lawmakers look to gambling 'No name-calling' but deadlock on budget remains By Jeffery Meitrodt and Ray Long Tribune staff reporters Published July 14, 2007 SPRINGFIELD—Gov. Rod Blagojevich and legislative leaders focused Friday on expanding gambling as a potential way to help them reach a budget accord and break their deadlock, now in its seventh week. Blagojevich is willing to look at expanded gambling as a way to increase education spending and pay for capital projects such as schools, roads and bridges, said Deputy Gov. Sheila Nix, who participated in negotiations. But the governor is not backing down on his desire to launch a state-subsidized health-care plan, Nix said. He still hopes to raise revenue to pay for that plan separately, such as with a tax on employers who do not supply health care to workers and through eliminating some business tax breaks, she said. The scope of any gambling expansion—including how many more casinos, if any—is among the unresolved questions. And many lawmakers are skeptical, both of the gambling and health-care ideas, because some of the governor's funding proposals have fallen flat. House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago) cautioned after the latest negotiating session that he "wouldn't put a lot of hope on" gambling legislation, saying the wide-ranging meeting offered little to report. Madigan, who has called on the governor to tone down harsh criticism of fellow Democrats, revealed a "good news aspect to this meeting. There was no name-calling." Yet Madigan went on the offensive earlier Friday in interviews with WGN-AM 720's Spike O'Dell and WFLD-Ch. 32. "It's a case of failed leadership before the General Assembly," Madigan said of the governor in a taping for Fox Chicago Sunday, which airs at 8 a.m. Sunday on WFLD-Ch. 32. "He has failed because of his leadership style, a style which is not designed to bring people together. Rather it's designed to tear them apart, and that's what he's attempting to do." While the governor has pledged to keep lawmakers in Springfield until a budget is resolved, they all decided to take off Sunday and return Monday. rlong@tribune.com jmeitrodt@tribune.com Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune __________________ -young middle-class lad or lass who feels elated by thinking that he or she has covered all aspects of politics and religion with the help of a few lectures by a certified conspiracy crank or by watching a straight-to-YouTube ‘documentary’. - Nadeem F. Paracha Its the buddhist in you, it's the pagan in me. Its the muslim in him, she's catholic aint she? Its the born again look it's the wasp and the jew Tell me what's goin on, I aint gotta clue - Jimmy Buffett

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May 30th, 2007, 12:49 AM	#22
Nat76 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 130 Likes (Received): 0	As luck would have it, we're I actually got put on a casino deal for work a couple of years ago. I'm not getting into proprietary stuff here, just information I received that you could get elsewhere. This is straight from the mouth of a gaming exec and publicly-available info: 1-Casinos don't make as much money as you think they do. For every $1 you lose at a casino, the state takes 25-30 cents in gaming taxes (depending upon the state). Another 55-60 cents or so is eaten by operating costs. That only leaves about 15 cents profit, pre-tax, and Uncle Sam and the state tax another 40% of that. Bottom line: they don't make a lot of money for the up-front costs that are sunk, but they do bring in more than standard tourism for the state due to gaming taxation. 2-If a casino was launched in the city, rents and/or owned infrastructure would be higher, therefore lower profits. This means they've got to make their money elsewhere, which would be a resort-style place w/ other amenities like high-end restaurants, hotel, lounges, etc. There really isn't another way. You've got to maximize revenue/square foot and the only way to do that is through other services to keep more people there longer. 3-If you don't offer something different, no one will drive to a more convenient location to gamble. If I live in Naperville, I'm not going into the city to gamble, pay for parking, etc. I'm going to Joliet. Similarly, if I'm in town, I won't be a repeat customer if I can get the same experience back home in Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. 4-Riverboats are a bust. No one wants to be trapped on a boat in the middle of the water. They want to be able to come/go as they please. Mobile riverboats lose money. In addition, fixed riverboats/barges don't work either. The floorplate isn't sufficient. The most profitable trend is one open floor. A large floorplate is essential. 5-Multiple casinos in one location are used to keep away/segment competition, but these require multiple licenses. If licenses are limited, you would never put two casinos/buildings offering the same experience together. 6-You've got to put it where people can see it. A highway is ideal, but road construction can kill a highway location. One extensive highway project can bankrupt a casino. A lot of this is common sense, but I thought it was interesting when I went back and looked at some of my notes. I think from a location standpoint, downtown obviously is the most desirable if you're looking for a different experience. The question for an operator is which is cheaper: a 20-year lease on public property like McPier/Northerly or leasing/owning land someplace else downtown. From a civic standpoint, I think the question is: what is the best use of cetain parcel of land. The city may opt to keep the riverfront near Roosevelt barren in the hopes of office/residential development. A place like McPier/Northerly or even Goose Island (highway visibility) might be viewed as less "developable".

May 31st, 2007, 12:49 PM	#23
edsg25 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 9,399 Likes (Received): 0	the state's decison about a downtown Chgo casino should be less about making a profit and more about adding another crown jewel to the list of downtown attractions. its profitability will come because it adds more to the total package downtown rather than it being a run away success.

May 31st, 2007, 12:52 PM	#24
edsg25 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 9,399 Likes (Received): 0	If Chicago (and the state) want to know what it would be like to have one major casino in town and near the heart of the city, don't we simply have to look what is going on a mere 90 miles north of us? Pottawatomi Casino is a cash cow in Milwaukee. The already huge facility is in the process of doubling its size. And despite the availability of casino gambling on the Fox River and the Lake Co (IN) lakefront right in our back yard, Chicago area residents still visit it in droves. Wouldn't you think that Pottawatomi gives us some picture of what that lone Chicago casino might look like...and how successful it might be?

May 31st, 2007, 12:54 PM	#25
edsg25 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 9,399 Likes (Received): 0	How much of an element of class would it be if our one casino was modeled physcially after Monte Carlo (as opposed to Vegas or AC)????

May 31st, 2007, 04:02 PM	#26
Mr Downtown Urbane observer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,532 Likes (Received): 0	Not as much as if we specified that our casino patrons had to look like those in Monaco.

June 3rd, 2007, 10:44 AM	#30
Nat76 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 130 Likes (Received): 0	I totally agree with you on the benefits extending beyond the project and revenues itself, but the guys ponying up the cash to build and operate won't see it that way. If Harrah's or another operator gets the license and go ahead to build downtown, they're not going to take on the risk to break even. If the city wants to use this as a development tool in a marginal area of the city, then they will need to give someone a sweetheart deal on the land. To answer your question on the sportsbook issue, yes, that is one of the big reservations pro leagues have with Las Vegas. Another issue is just the general seediness that goes with vegas--the quantity of gambling, clubs, legalized prostitution just outside the city, organized crime risks. It could be a PR nightmare without the implication of fixing. Nevada is the only state in the country with sports betting, but things have been changing. The NBA held their all-star game there this year, and there has been a lot of talk about a franchise in Vegas. Offshore betting has become huge, so it's not Vegas-centric anymore anyway. Players also make a ton of money today so their economic incentive to fix isn't as prevalent. Is a guy making millions going to fix a score to make millions with all of the risks associated with that?

June 13th, 2007, 02:41 AM	#34
pwalker Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Native Seattleite Posts: 1,257 Likes (Received): 3	This whole thread is interesting, but makes me wonder where the saturation point may be. At what point will there be too many casinos, or will there never be enough to satisfy this craving that many Americans have to drop money into machines that over time will never give it back to them? I think Las Vegas is a poor model for Chicago. People go to Vegas for the overall experience, not just to gamble. Milwaukee and Detroit are better models as to what a downtown Chicago casino might turn out to be. The casinos in downtown Detroit are less than glamorous. Milwaukee's is nicer, but again, beyond the gambling, what is the draw? In the far suburbs, Aurora, Elgin, and Joliet seem to draw lots of locals, (who all seem to be heavy smokers btw,) many who probably would spend their money elsewhere if it were not for the two bills they dropped in the machines that night. (And two bills is a conservative estimate!). Gambling has gone through cycles throughout US history. It gets big, then it gets severely controlled, then slowly builds up, then gets shut down again. Guess where where we are in the cycle right now?

June 13th, 2007, 01:23 PM	#36
Moonraker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1 Likes (Received): 0	It would be a shame to litter the Chicago Lakefront with a Casino (gaudy, decadent, sleazy... but a money generator). How about a location along the river south of River City and finally give that area a boost?

August 8th, 2007, 08:17 PM	#40
edsg25 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 9,399 Likes (Received): 0	Here's one definite: a Chicago casino, if built, will not be for built for Chicagoans. And rightuflly so. Parking in the DT area would be exhorbatant. The Lake Co. (IN) boats are too close by to the city anyway and suburbanites will still head out to the Fox River Valley and free parking...or even up to the fewer hassles they find at Pottawatomi in Milw (once its massive construction project is over). The Chicago casino would be built to tap into the tourist/convention trade and augment what is offered to out-of-towners in the central part of the city. Thus it would be far more high end, high roller in nature than the casinos that draw from the local communities.