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Old May 28th, 2007, 08:06 AM   #1
African Lion
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China: good or bad for Africa

What do you guys think of all the Chinese presence in Africa. They seem to be doing some good with investment and infrastructure building and they also support tyrants like Brashir in Sudan and Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Their profiting of a Genocide in sudan by trading guns for oil is downright evil. What shoul we make of China and its Asian cousin India.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 08:16 AM   #2
DanteXavier
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Good overall. There are sore points, like Zim. and Sudan. This shows that China really just wants resources, and is unconcerned with morals. That's not so nice i guess, although I really don't think the west has shown itself to be any different over the years.

In the end, however, i think relations with China do more good than bad. China invests directly, building roads, building stadiums, facilities, donating equipment, etc, etc, etc. The level of direct investment we see here is pretty good. Let's be honest: do you see such direct investment from the west? Not as often. There are tons of western companies investing in Africa, but they don't often just show up and construct these massive facilities with such regularity the way China does. Africa has to remember that.

Relations with the west should always be a priority, but relations with china will also be extremely beneficial to most African nations. With that investment, African nations can build stronger militaries and police forces(which can be a good thing), build better infrastructures quickly, etc, etc. The possibilities are endless.

So, in conclusion, yes, there is a darkside. But in the end, the good outwieghs the bad as far as I am concerned.
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Old May 28th, 2007, 11:20 AM   #3
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Asian countries pay little attention to the nature of regimes they invest in. During the go-go years from 1970-1997 when Indonesia and Thailand were growing rapidly Japan invested heavily in both nations (the largest recipients of Japanese ODA and FDI by far) despite neither having democratic governments most of those years. China, Japan and India today all invest in Myanmar, despite that country's horrible human rights record.

Asian investment is good for African economies but it might be bad for African democracy.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 03:33 AM   #4
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china build project as fast as western country and cheaper too
and african country cannot afford to waiste time and money
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Old May 29th, 2007, 08:00 AM   #5
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Good

China, IMO, is being used as a tool by the African countries (especially the less popular ones like Sudan and Zimbabwe) to lower Western influence in their countries and their development.

They are doing things that most Western countries are afraid to do. I heard of the Chinese helping the Ethiopians look for oil in their Somali region (where the attack was a while back), most Western countries would write off this region as lawless and let the place stay undeveloped, not China. They, unlike the US or Europe, see Africa as a continent of future potential where they could gain from economically, while the West still sees Africa as a weak helpless place where people are starving and we constantly need their help to live. They are strictly business, unlike the former, which mixes politics and makes business more messy.

There are some negative aspects to this, like ruining chances for democracy or human rights in some countries. There is also that factor that Chinese products flooding African markets will ruin domestic export. That's something that African countries need to work on.

Hopefully there will a time when African countries can be on a equal footing with their trading partners, but their economies are too weak globally for this to happen. When they become more powerful, then we can pull the shots on what will happen in our countries.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 09:27 AM   #6
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Good
I think that China has lowered the imperialist overtones of the West. Recently, the EU parliament voted to withdraw aid from Nigeria. The European Commission rejected the idea, probably realising that China now provides an alternative.

Also China is willing to help develop local man power, which the West have almost always resisted.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 12:59 PM   #7
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i would go for good bad is sudan and zim as some1 point out early
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Old May 30th, 2007, 07:04 AM   #8
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That's not so nice i guess, although I really don't think the west has shown itself to be any different over the years.
========================================================
Read "The Confession of an Economic Hitman", which explain well what the West is doing. Political string in giving out aid to countries in need of investment and aid always have an evil motive, do not be binded by the western propaganda. The Western countries are at all the material times acting for their own benefit and they do not mind it is obtained at the costs of continuing proverty of those aided countries, but as they control the English international media, they can promote themselves as charity. Do you really think the Western countries are concerning about the well being and democracy of the developing countries ? Ask people in South America. On the other hand China is also acting for its own benefit, but just as an equal trading partner doing its own business. If you read the book I referred to to, you will learn how a politicl elite trying to protect the interest of its own people can be described as evil in western propaganda and be destroyed.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 07:10 AM   #9
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Hopefully there will a time when African countries can be on a equal footing with their trading partners, but their economies are too weak globally for this to happen. When they become more powerful, then we can pull the shots on what will happen in our countries
==========================================================
20 years ago China has to give VERY favorable terms to foreign investment in order to make things started. Now China is giving less and less to foreign investment. Everything has a strating point and things will change along with the economic development, it is a dynamic process.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 02:06 PM   #10
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I am a chinese.
China now is somewhat like US before WW II. It is a isolationism country.
Except Taiwan issue, Chinese people still are not ready to interfere into foreign issues,let alone african affairs,although Chinese economy is being developed fast,and its power and influence increases also very much.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #11
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BTW,China now has trillion of redundant fund.
those redundant fund are looking for chance of investment.
that is why China now is so interested in African resource.

After all, US dollar is being devalued,while mine won't devalue.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:26 PM   #12
abesha
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I honestly don't understand why people complain about China's relationship with Sudan or Zimbabwe.
I actually appreciate that China is NOT a hypocrite, after all, it is NOT a democracy and its own human rights record is NOT good so it has no business telling another country how to run itself.
I am also really sick of the West trying to "protect" Africa from the big bad wolf..ugh. Africa is not a child that needs protection through the West. It can take care of itself, and if it doesn't, then it will have to face the consequences by itself.
The West needs to back off and accept that Africa is not its backyard anymore.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 06:07 PM   #13
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China is NOT a hypocrite, after all, it is NOT a democracy and its own human rights record is NOT good so it has no business telling another country how to run itself.
=========================================================
Chinese are living happily, they may even have more freedom then people in some countries who are "good friends" of the the West provided they are not planning to overthrown the government. Chinese do not need the West to teach them how to run their country, naturally Chinese will not "tell" other countries how to run their countries. Every country have its own history, its own culture and has its own problem to solve. Only the people of the particular country can decide how to take care of their own business. The West should stop labelling other country who do not run their country as what they are told by the West by all the nagative labels. The West should stop behave as if they are morally superior, their hands are in fact most dirty.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:24 AM   #14
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THE FRENCH OCCUPATION IN ALGERIA 1830

STOLE EQUIVALENT OFF 10 BILLIONS $ (ACTUEL)


BUTIN DE GUERRE ALGER (FRENCH )
TO READ

http://dzlit.free.fr/ppean.html


AND NOW WESTERN POWER ARE COMPLAINING AGAINST CHINA

LET ME LAUGH

WESTERN STOLE AND OCCUPY AFRICA THEY TOOK GOLD ,SILVER, SLAVE TRADE AND NOW THEY USE
RIGHT OFF HUMAN
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Old May 31st, 2007, 02:35 AM   #15
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too early to tell, give it time. for now we africans lets just trend carefully
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Old May 31st, 2007, 03:41 AM   #16
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China's partnerships are less one sided than western "partnerships" because they do benefit African and we don't have to sell our soul in the process. It would be great not to need technical and financial assistance but the fact that they don't look to influence domestic policies and economic policies makes them a much better partner.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 04:36 AM   #17
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The Sudan civil war was caused by the different religion belief of the North and the South. China is in the neutral standpoint, has not supported any side. China can not interfere Sudan's internal affairs based on western values and interests. China hoped all parties in Sudan can come up with a peaceful solution. China already gave $7 million humanity aid to Sudan refugees, ask what other countries have done to Sudan refugees? Any foreign country attempts to overthrow the Sudan government, is a infringement to Sudan's Sovereignty, is a violation of the United Nations' laws and regulations.It will only cause the civil war of Sudan to break out on a large scale which will lead to more people lost their life. China can not do such, also oppose any country does such. This is the Chinese government's viewpoint that I learn from Chinese news paper. While everybody watches CNN, also need to watch CCTV to get a balance point of view.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmancn View Post
The Sudan civil war was caused by the different religion belief of the North and the South. China is in the neutral standpoint, has not supported any side. China can not interfere Sudan's internal affairs based on western values and interests. China hoped all parties in Sudan can come up with a peaceful solution. China already gave $7 million humanity aid to Sudan refugees, ask what other countries have done to Sudan refugees? Any foreign country attempts to overthrow the Sudan government, is a infringement to Sudan's Sovereignty, is a violation of the United Nations' laws and regulations.It will only cause the civil war of Sudan to break out on a large scale which will lead to more people lost their life. China can not do such, also oppose any country does such. This is the Chinese government's viewpoint that I learn from Chinese news paper. While everybody watches CNN, also need to watch CCTV to get a balance point of view.
Chinese are isolationists! they are not ready to interfere in African affairs .

African are all independent now. so they could take care of themselves.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 06:11 AM   #19
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USA was in the first place trained and armed the seperatists and rebels in Africa and is the evil behind who in fact started and promote those civil wars in Africa. What USA need is civil wars in Africa because it can guarantee Africa will never developed and remain the raw material supplier forever. Corrupted dictators ? If any of them takes side with USA he will not be described as such but a good friend of the West. Human right and democracy ? Ask USA to promote democracy in Sudi Arabia, it is still a country run by Kings and Princes.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:00 PM   #20
Matthias Offodile
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After due reflection I came to the conclusion that my initial enthusiam is muted! So itīs a mixed bag! Chinese are extremly clever-minded and business-orientated people! So we have to display an alertness of mind otherwise we will start accusing the Chinese of "stealing, robbing, possessing and sucking Africa dry in 30 years time"!
So we must wake up now or never!

Nothing comes for free in life and every nation on this palnet has interests and no friends and nobody will give you a bed of roses for free!

China needs Africa for cheap ressources, China needs Africa for selling its own products (vast potential business market) and China needs Africa because of geo-political reasons (in the future)! And China - despite its wonderful economic boom - is still a brutal dictatorship with severe death penality (I have read about it). These are plain facts!
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