Death Penalty For Corrupted Chinese Officials

[ningxiard]

Originally Posted by 02tonyl

Southerneurop , please ignore that guy, he is just silly. Welcome to Chinese forum

whatever. I was probably kind of rude to call him an idiot, I'll take that back now. I am just sick of people making facile comparison between China and other countries just based on a single case and rushing to the conclusion that this one is superior, while the other is still stuck in the medieval darkness. Every country and civilization has its own poltical, economic and cultural background and historical context, out of which every pleasant or unpleasant event takes place, in most cases, it's much better not to make that kind of comparison and the subsequent ranking or superiority judgement.

[tiger]

Originally Posted by gaoanyu

and who can be sure that India is less corrupted than China?
Now that I admit corruption in China is deep-rooted, I still don't think that there is evident proof that India, due to its free presses, are less corrupted than China.

[tiger]

Originally Posted by ningxiard

No, I didn't say or mean that. It's the way he has been arguing that gives me such a suspicion. Did he ever participate in any discussion on SSC other than China vs India, CCP vs democracy, stuff like those? As far as I know, he never did. Did he ever tell us anything new except those cliches we have heard or read thousands of times?

I thought he was an Indian and I still think so now.

[fuzion2k]

Chen Lianyu aswell....

GO THE DEATH PENALTY AND STUFF AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL :P

[helihui]

You see this is what Chinese system has produced: People more interested in who you are rather than what you say (the assumption being that that is why you say that). That people might think I am an Indian because I am critical of their stance only goes further to prove that labelling and categorizing have not left the Chinese system. This was the lesson learnt from the Cultural Revolution, but the problem is that it is deep-rooted in a system which talks about "Rule by law" rather than "Rule of law" (meaning you still have people above the law who can change the law. I do not participate in self-congratulatory postings about the great progress of China because I don't want to add to the relentless propaganda championing China already. We need more critical voices. Also, what I am saying repeatedly and what seems to be falling on deaf ears is that any comparison with another country is useless if it only says that we are right to be wrong just because they are wrong (if at all that is the case). 悲乎？

[helihui]

Originally Posted by ningxiard

whatever. I was probably kind of rude to call him an idiot, I'll take that back now. I am just sick of people making facile comparison between China and other countries just based on a single case and rushing to the conclusion that this one is superior, while the other is still stuck in the medieval darkness. Every country and civilization has its own poltical, economic and cultural background and historical context, out of which every pleasant or unpleasant event takes place, in most cases, it's much better not to make that kind of comparison and the subsequent ranking or superiority judgement.

I fully agree with that!

[big-dog]

Originally Posted by helihui

You see this is what Chinese system has produced: People more interested in who you are rather than what you say (the assumption being that that is why you say that). That people might think I am an Indian because I am critical of their stance only goes further to prove that labelling and categorizing have not left the Chinese system. This was the lesson learnt from the Cultural Revolution, but the problem is that it is deep-rooted in a system which talks about "Rule by law" rather than "Rule of law" (meaning you still have people above the law who can change the law. I do not participate in self-congratulatory postings about the great progress of China because I don't want to add to the relentless propaganda championing China already. We need more critical voices. Also, what I am saying repeatedly and what seems to be falling on deaf ears is that any comparison with another country is useless if it only says that we are right to be wrong just because they are wrong (if at all that is the case). 悲乎？

I agree with you to some extent but I think you focus only on the dark side of China's society. We need people like you to point out the problems but we also need people to recognize CCP's achievement in last 2-3 decades.

The comparison with India is pointless if people just want to satisfy their excessive pride. But it's priceless if it can make people understand that democracy itself is not a heal-all medicine for developing countries.

[big-dog]

Originally Posted by helihui

China doesn't have a system. But yes, it has a great cover up system. What I find funny is that many educatec people are unable to see through. Or perhaps they don't want to as their identities are so inextricably linked to it. I don't need to refer back to 89, SARS, recent scandals, CR, GLF to show you how great a system without accountability is.

That's a good example of your biased attitude towards China's current system. You only see the problems and come to a conlusion that China doesn't have a system.

Plus you previous baseless comments, that's how you are losing credit in this forum.

Don't pretend to be a deity seeing through the society, many people in this forum have more experience even bad experience with CCP but still they can comment things in a rational way.

[helihui]

Originally Posted by big-dog

That's a good example of your biased attitude towards China's current system. You only see the problems and come to a conlusion that China doesn't have a system.

Plus you previous baseless comments, that's how you are losing credit in this forum.

Don't pretend to be a deity seeing through the society, many people in this forum have more experience even bad experience with CCP but still they can comment things in a rational way.

My posts here are not to establish credibility. Words speak for themselves. Now, what I wish to alert people about is precisely this trap where you take India's deficiencies (again subject to debate) as proof of the failings of a democratic system.

There are several other democratic countries in this world and I am fully aware of the problems with a democracy. However, without a democracy there is no accountability. It is more like people saying they are right, you just believe it or shut up. The point is not really a comparison of China with another country, it is pointless as there are too many social, cultural and political differences. The point is that beautiful roads, tall buildings and apparent prosperity is not necessarily indicative of progress. Unfortunately, that is what meets the eyes most. Hence, India becomes quite a handy example for China to show its people that crave for democracy. Take a look at Macau, Hong Kong, Taipei or even parts of New York, you have a lot (if not equal) of chaos, run-down buildings, conjested areas etc. However, the true economic standing of these places is not directly proportional to they way they look. 有句名言：勿以貌取人。

[big-dog]

Originally Posted by helihui

My posts here are not to establish credibility. Words speak for themselves. Now, what I wish to alert people about is precisely this trap where you take India's deficiencies (again subject to debate) as proof of the failings of a democratic system.

There are several other democratic countries in this world and I am fully aware of the problems with a democracy. However, without a democracy there is no accountability. It is more like people saying they are right, you just believe it or shut up. The point is not really a comparison of China with another country, it is pointless as there are too many social, cultural and political differences. The point is that beautiful roads, tall buildings and apparent prosperity is not necessarily indicative of progress. Unfortunately, that is what meets the eyes most. Hence, India becomes quite a handy example for China to show its people that crave for democracy. Take a look at Macau, Hong Kong, Taipei or even parts of New York, you have a lot (if not equal) of chaos, run-down buildings, conjested areas etc. However, the true economic standing of these places is not directly proportional to they way they look. 有句名言：勿以貌取人。

I don't take India's deficiencies as proof of the failure of a democratic system. I was in US for many years and I may know better than you what democracy is and I appreciate what democracy can bring to me in developed countries. But you can't just say China is not a system because of not being a democracy. Actually China is doing better than India without being a democracy (of course many factors involved but it still makes sense to compare). That proves the fact that non-democratic China can still be a system and achieving more than some democracies.

And you should not compare China to developed regioins. Of course appreance is not important but most of the time, it reflects people's living standards and the infrastructures they can enjoy in their everyday life.

For developing countries, the most important thing is to pull people out of poverty and improve their living standard. China is so far doing way better than the democratic India in this sector. I don't want to repeat this again. This is my whole point.

If you think most Indian people are having a better life than China because of free press and voting, I have nothing to say.

[snowmancn]

冯锦华? Are you the one who good at printing red print oversea?

[z0rg]

Originally Posted by big-dog

I don't take India's deficiencies as proof of the failure of a democratic system. I was in US for many years and I may know better than you what democracy is and I appreciate what democracy can bring to me in developed countries.

[kelvinyang]

看了冯锦华 的 http://groups.google.com/group/aiguozhe, 觉得孙中山那一套比毛泽东和共产党阶级斗争那一套实在. 遗憾中国当初没有照孙中山那一套做.

[fuzion2k]

Add Falun Gong to the Death Penalty list aswell...

[gaoanyu]

The thing is, few people agree that the US type of democracy will work for China, given the long and continuous Chinese values we have consistently developed during the last 4 to 5 thousands years or so.
In fact, US-type of democracy works for far few countries that I can recall. I have not seen, and I don't think I will, that a poor country would become affluent after adopting the US-type of democracy. Please educate me with some examples if I am wrong, thanks.

By SouthernEuropean:

thanks for calling me an idiot... and this is my first time on Chinese forums..

Maybe we didn't get your joke and people here are becoming very defensive because of the numerous China-bashing trolls we have seen in this and other forums. But I am sure misunderstandings will not last.

[helihui]

Originally Posted by big-dog

I don't take India's deficiencies as proof of the failure of a democratic system. I was in US for many years and I may know better than you what democracy is and I appreciate what democracy can bring to me in developed countries. But you can't just say China is not a system because of not being a democracy. Actually China is doing better than India without being a democracy (of course many factors involved but it still makes sense to compare). That proves the fact that non-democratic China can still be a system and achieving more than some democracies.

And you should not compare China to developed regioins. Of course appreance is not important but most of the time, it reflects people's living standards and the infrastructures they can enjoy in their everyday life.

For developing countries, the most important thing is to pull people out of poverty and improve their living standard. China is so far doing way better than the democratic India in this sector. I don't want to repeat this again. This is my whole point.

If you think most Indian people are having a better life than China because of free press and voting, I have nothing to say.

This is my last post in response to you. That you have chosen to be presumptuous enough to assume that only you have lived in the US and that Indians are less well of that the Chinese is sufficient reason for this discussion to be deemed wasted. Best of luck.

[big-dog]

Originally Posted by helihui

That you have chosen to be presumptuous enough to assume that only you have lived in the US

did I say that? or is your another baseless assumption?

Originally Posted by helihui

and that Indians are less well of that the Chinese is sufficient reason for this discussion to be deemed wasted. Best of luck.

Of course the average people's living conditions in China is way better than that in India. It's nothing against the Indian people. It's just like the average living conditions in US is better than that in China. Why can't you face the fact and rather defend with rootless argument?

I don't mind if you come back again and give me something solid to prove I'm wrong. but if you couldn't (like all your previous posts) and choose to leave, I wish you enjoy the life but speak by the fact in this forum, cheers

[nifaye]

黄菊花死得好!大快人心事. 马上那个江就要毙命了，到时候 上 海 帮 就要垮台啦！真是好得不得了！
妈个B的，狗B中国ZF，烂B人还不让骂。
新浪上面消息登出来，一整天竟然没有一条留言！这样的人注定是没有人会为他走完人生最后一程祝福的。全国人民永远唾弃他！
FUCK THE CHINA COMMUNIST PARTY！
GOD DAMN IT！

狗B的共B党！共 产 共 B！

[Joshua_du]

雖然我對GCD很多地方不認同,但是也沒有必要侮辱吧,GCD很多當官都是貪污腐敗,這個是事實,但是我覺得那些一般黨員也和我們一樣是老百姓,不必侮辱人家
支持國父,恢復中華

[duskdawn]

Originally Posted by nifaye

黄菊花死得好!大快人心事. 马上那个江就要毙命了，到时候 上 海 帮 就要垮台啦！真是好得不得了！
妈个B的，狗B中国ZF，烂B人还不让骂。
新浪上面消息登出来，一整天竟然没有一条留言！这样的人注定是没有人会为他走完人生最后一程祝福的。全国人民永远唾弃他！
FUCK THE CHINA COMMUNIST PARTY！
GOD DAMN IT！

狗B的共B党！共 产 共 B！

你要是来这骂人的滚出去，就你这素质还民主？谁听你说话都烦。