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Old April 5th, 2007, 09:23 PM   #541
getontrac
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^Well, if we're talking about the initial segment (?)--the one I'm most familiar with--you've got 12 stops on 13.9 miles, I think. This averages to 1.26 miles between stops. Given the size and relatively high density of Seattle, I don't think there should be any fewer stops overall. The calculations of speed I've done were about 26 mph, which is close to as fast as an LRT system can be given a 1.26 mile station density and comparable to HRT systems with higher station densities. If MLK were fully-grade seperated, the system might average about 30 mph, thumbnail guess.

So, since Seattle decided to go with LRT (which I've pretty much concluded deserves a ), you've got a pretty fast system. I think Seattle with its traffic doesn't need to worry too much on the auto/transit speed contest. I think you'll get TOO many riders--more than the system can handle, but that's the other issue....

Nate
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Old April 6th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #542
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Thanks for the explanation.

Do you know how the distance between stops and average speeds compare with Portland?
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Old April 6th, 2007, 01:02 AM   #543
getontrac
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I haven't checked Portland lately (I'm sure I had an idea once). But I'm positive Portland's system averages less than 20 mph, maybe as low as 15 mph.

Nate

EDIT: On the APTA website, I looked at the trackage (this may be outdated a bit), it should be about 46.5 alignment miles. It has (had) 62 stations, hence an average station distance of 0.76 miles.

Last edited by getontrac; April 6th, 2007 at 01:20 AM.
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Old April 7th, 2007, 08:19 AM   #544
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Portland's average speed is probably that slow since it operates on the surface streets in downtown, which may eventually prove to be a big problem. Not in the near future however.

As for the information being accurate about the millage and the stations for Portland, this is directly from the TriMet (Portland's ST equivalent) website:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMet
The three MAX lines (Blue, Red and Yellow) run on 44 miles of track and serve 64 stations.
In 2009 when the green line is created and new downtown alignment stations as well as I-205 stations come online, they'll be more.
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Old April 7th, 2007, 08:41 AM   #545
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I think after their next segment, Portland should seriously consider tunneling downtown. It would drastically simplify their operations as well increase speed, capacity, and reliability. I believe they are limited to 2-car trains because of block length?

The cost would be worth it. The system simply turns into a streetcar downtown with the trains slowing down quite a bit to keep a schedule and prevent bunching.

Portland is outgrowing itself. If America had more confidence in transit, they would have built it right in the first place. Light Rail may still be the ultimate best mode of choice for the City, but the surface-circle-merger they've got ought to really be considered "beneath" them.

Nate
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Old April 7th, 2007, 08:37 PM   #546
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Does anyone have any of their own pictures/videos of the trains testing??
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Old April 9th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #547
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Aye, getontrac, the length limit is two cars because of the small block length, which incidentally makes down town a very pedestrian friendly city thus it has its own advantages.

The advantage of tunneling under downtown does allow for faster travel times, but building a larger consist will be harder to implement due to two things. First, the new cars they just bought for this 2009 project aren't designed for more than a two car consist. Second, all the stations outside of the potential new tunnel will require enlarging to accommodate a larger consist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guinessbeer55
Does anyone have any of their own pictures/videos of the trains testing??
Unfortunately not, at least for me.
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Old April 10th, 2007, 07:45 PM   #548
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Picture of Beacon Hill Station Shaft:

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Old April 10th, 2007, 09:08 PM   #549
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WOW! Not bad!
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Old April 13th, 2007, 04:21 AM   #550
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check out this video... I dont know if any of you have seen it, its the new add for the november package...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=96MRxM8lgJs
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Old April 13th, 2007, 04:32 AM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinessbeer55 View Post
check out this video... I dont know if any of you have seen it, its the new add for the november package...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=96MRxM8lgJs
Wow, that's sleek.

That's a great ad.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 05:01 AM   #552
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Great video. Funny thing when they shows traffic part, I felt sick and want to avoid it so bad! LOL!
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Old April 13th, 2007, 06:38 AM   #553
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What's the deal with the Convention Place Station? Is it gone for good when the tunnel reopens?
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Old April 13th, 2007, 07:26 AM   #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom View Post
What's the deal with the Convention Place Station? Is it gone for good when the tunnel reopens?
it might serve as a bus terminus, like it is now
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Old April 13th, 2007, 09:40 PM   #555
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The pine street stub tunnel where the light rail trains turn around (and in the future continue to the UW) is just south east of the convention place station. I think the convention station will continue to be a bus stop and terminus as it is now.

Here's a little news item on the ST2 draft package: http://www.soundtransit.org/x2293.xml
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Last edited by Jaxom92; April 13th, 2007 at 10:00 PM.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 01:17 AM   #556
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^ But it won't be a lightrail stop right?
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Old April 14th, 2007, 01:25 AM   #557
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Seattle PI: UW light rail station an island unto itself

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transp...station13.html

Friday, April 13, 2007 · Last updated 7:22 a.m. PT

UW light rail station an island unto itself
No quick connection for Metro users; no room for park and ride
By DEBERA CARLTON HARRELL
P-I REPORTER

None of the Evergreen Point Bridge replacement proposals has a single site where bus commuters could connect smoothly to light rail at the future University of Washington station. And if you're in a car, forget it -- there likely won't be a park and ride or transfer point.

That issue is a sticking point as Sound Transit's plans for light rail forge ahead and the Seattle City Council plans to vote Monday on a replacement resolution, which lists "connectivity" with the UW station as a priority.

"There will probably not be a direct connection," confirmed John Milton, state Route 520 project manager for the Washington State Department of Transportation.

Still, state transportation officials are working with Sound Transit to ensure proximity between the light rail station and HOV travelers coming off and on Route 520.

Ron Endlich, deputy director for Sound Transit's University Link light rail project, said that although there is collaboration, the light rail line is further along and the site for a light rail station is "pretty much set." It will be beneath a current UW Medical Center parking garage, southwest of Husky Stadium, roughly below where Montlake Boulevard and Pacific Street meet.

It's is a long-range hope that the 520 bridge someday will accommodate light rail.

But the already-squeezed and congested university is worried about efforts to create a transit hub on campus -- and has made those concerns known to transportation officials and the Governor's Office, UW spokesman Norm Arkans said.

"You can't look at the University of Washington as an intermodal exchange or station area. It doesn't work," Arkans said. "You can't have people driving here to get on a (light rail) train, because there's no park and ride -- and there's zero chance of putting one here. There's no space."

Nor is there adequate space for buses to load and unload passengers making light rail connections, Arkans said. "There's no room for that."

Because some replacement proposals would decrease Husky Stadium parking, current space could shrink further, university officials say.

Milton confirmed that the state would have to replace parking displaced by the Route 520 project, but state lawmakers also said Thursday that they still are working on the language of measures that aim to solve the transit hub and other 520-related issues.

The Pacific Street Interchange proposal calls for a new Union Bay bridge with ramps (general purpose, HOV and bike path) dropping down through what is now the Husky Stadium south parking lot and into a new, lidded Pacific Street-Montlake Boulevard intersection. Buses would progress under the lid to a point east of Husky Stadium.

Although the exact 520 transit stop isn't cited, it is likely that those who want to transfer from 520 to light rail would walk about 1,500 feet to reach the UW link station.

Digging a tunnel in the area, a feature of proposals such as a translake "tube tunnel" and the Union Bay Alternative (formerly called the Arboretum Bypass plan), presents significant transit-link engineering challenges, Milton said.

Still, City Councilman Richard Conlin said the council expects to vote on the resolution, which includes calls for the Route 520 project to:

Ensure that bus service connects to the planned light rail station at Husky Stadium and that a bus station is nearby.

That the Route 520 project be "coordinated" with the UW station and "be consistent with the Sound Transit long-range plan."

That the state Department of Transportation, Sound Transit and Metro work to "optimize the development" of the station "for ease, speed and convenience of bus-to-rail transfers for transit users."

The university understands the need for a new bridge and is trying to work with state and local officials, Arkans said.

"We just want the impacts on the university acknowledged and mitigated, so our programs don't suffer because of the need to solve a transportation problem," he said.

Some question whether such a link is really needed.

"Why would you drive to the UW, get off here and then take light rail to downtown or south to the airport? It would be an extra stop. If you're already in a car, you could just drive there," Arkans said.

P-I reporter Debera Carlton Harrell can be reached at 206-448-8326 or [email protected].
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:24 AM   #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kub86 View Post
^ But it won't be a lightrail stop right?
Nope. The next one would be Capitol Hill, once that part opens.

I don't think that the bus transfers is as big a deal as that article is making it. For one thing, the UW is such a huge destination that in terms of ridership, it doesn't matter. Second, there's going to be a station at Brooklyn, which is near a whole ton of bus routes. Granted, that part of the line is a ways down the road, but something tells me even if the buses can't stop right near the station, a couple block walk isn't too far. Metro will surely revise their routing to take light rail into account.

And the issue of room is a big one. There's not much space down there for anything. I was surprised by the choice ST made for the alignment considering the cramped quarters I've seen there.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:55 AM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinessbeer55 View Post
Does anyone have any of their own pictures/videos of the trains testing??
I don't know if you've seen this yet, but this gentleman was kind enough to post his videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64wRy...elated&search=

By the way, according to Sound Transit's website, the Convention Place tunnel is being demolished with the construction of the Pine Street stub, so how exactly will it remain a bus terminus?
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Last edited by Backstrom; April 14th, 2007 at 10:14 AM.
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Old April 14th, 2007, 09:27 PM   #560
Jaxom92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom View Post
By the way, according to Sound Transit's website, the Convention Place tunnel is being demolished with the construction of the Pine Street stub, so how exactly will it remain a bus terminus?
I didn't know that. Indeed, it couldn't... wait, I think I remember a discussion about what to do with the property. Vaguely. Maybe. I don't remember at all. But I seem to have been mistaken in any case.
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