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Old June 15th, 2005, 03:17 AM   #41
crazyjoeda
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How much track will seattle have by 2009 between lightrail and the monorail.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 08:18 PM   #42
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thats kind of strange to have a monorail and LRT but its knid of neat.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 11:51 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjoeda
How much track will seattle have by 2009 between lightrail and the monorail.
Well, the initial segment of Light Rail is 14 miles. The monorail is also 14 miles, but that is looking more like a 2010 opening date now (assuming that it will be built, that is). So both of those, along with the 1.7 mile airport extension of the light rail (supposed to open about 6 months after the initial segement does) makes 29.7 miles or 47.8 km. Seattle will also probably have another 2.6 mile streetcar line opening by as early as fall 2007.


As to why both Light Rail and monorail are being built, that is a much more complicated question. The light Rail is being built by Sound Transit, a regional transit agency that is building transit projects for an area made up of parts of 3 counties. The monorail is being paid for by city residents.
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Old June 16th, 2005, 01:02 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPtoMKE
Well, the initial segment of Light Rail is 14 miles. The monorail is also 14 miles, but that is looking more like a 2010 opening date now (assuming that it will be built, that is). So both of those, along with the 1.7 mile airport extension of the light rail (supposed to open about 6 months after the initial segement does) makes 29.7 miles or 47.8 km. Seattle will also probably have another 2.6 mile streetcar line opening by as early as fall 2007.
Is there doubt to the Mono Rail being built?


Quote:
As to why both Light Rail and monorail are being built, that is a much more complicated question. The light Rail is being built by Sound Transit, a regional transit agency that is building transit projects for an area made up of parts of 3 counties. The monorail is being paid for by city residents.
Can you transfer to and from light rail and the monorail on the same fare?
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Old June 16th, 2005, 03:12 AM   #45
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Other than the fact that the monorail looks really cool, why did you guys choose to build it?
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Old June 16th, 2005, 04:28 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rise_against
Other than the fact that the monorail looks really cool, why did you guys choose to build it?
The monorail has been there since the 1962 World's Fair. What's in question is an extension to the monorail.
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Old June 16th, 2005, 10:02 AM   #47
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Its not really an extension, the current monorail that was built for the 1962 fair will be torn down with the construction of the new one, although it will follow most of the same route of the current one down 5th Ave., but the stations will be in slightly different places. Is there doubt that it will be built? Most of the doubt has passed (like when there was the recall initiative about it last year and voters overwhelmingly rejected scrapping the project) but they are still technically in negotiations with the consortium that is to build it, and there probably a few more hoops to jump through, but it is looking quite likely. But lets just say i will beleive it when they start construction

I am not sure about the transfer issue, whether it has even been decided or not. There is a regionwide "Puget Pass" that i would think that the monorail would likely join, but it is possible that there could be an addition transfer fee required, i am not sure.

As to why it is being built? Well, the simple answer is that Seattle voters approved the taxation and construction, 4 times. Seattle residents recognized the need for rapid transit in the city, and through a grass roots process, got the whole project off the ground. Definately a unique way of getting a transit project built. Plus, Seattlites love the monorail they already have, so they are probably more open to using the technology than most places. It should be noted, that although the initial light rail segement and the monorail are both 14 miles, somehow, monorail is projected to cost significantly less than the light rail line (and must stay within that cost, under contract). Topography is one issue that makes things challanging. Whether or not it will be successful is still to be seen, but i am hopeful. Hopefully it pays off for Seattle to be bold.
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Old June 16th, 2005, 06:51 PM   #48
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Aside from the cool factor it looks like the parts of the city that will get monorail with the green line would have a hard time getting other typs of transit. The fact that the monorail guidway can fly over water and can casue a very small stuctual footprint at streetlevel is very important.
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Old June 16th, 2005, 11:03 PM   #49
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Maybe I dont know enough about these projects but it seems a little odd to have two different companies building publicly funded rapid transit lines that follow a similar route, and if you cant freely transfer between the lines on one pass they will be compeating against each other.

Anyway I hope Seattle has success when it finally gets rapid transit. Hopfully you guys dich your cars and clear up all that afull traffic.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:47 AM   #50
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sequoias, Good for you.

I don't care if you add me to ignore list so that be great news for me though.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 02:56 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink182
sequoias, Good for you.

I don't care if you add me to ignore list so that be great news for me though.
Um...what the hell does that have to do with the Seattle LRT?

Anyway, looks good. I'm looking forward to "hopefully" seeing the final product in person. How much is tunneled?
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Old June 20th, 2005, 07:25 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikko
Um...what the hell does that have to do with the Seattle LRT?

Anyway, looks good. I'm looking forward to "hopefully" seeing the final product in person. How much is tunneled?
The downtown bus tunnel (completed in 1989 or so), it's about 1.2 miles long.

Beacon hill tunnel is about 1 mile long going thru the hill since light rail can't go over a steep hill and there's lot of houses in the way, too. They will be boring the tunnel this fall with the brand new boring machine assembled in Tacoma, parts made in Japan.

P.S. don't mind blink182. :P

Last edited by sequoias; June 20th, 2005 at 07:33 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 02:19 AM   #53
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Cascadia Monorail Design, Build, Operate, and Maintain Contract

On June 20, the Seattle Monorail Project made public details of the contract that has been negotiated with the Cascadia Monorail consortium.





The contract still must be approved by the Board of the Seattle Monorail Project and then the funding plan for the project must pass a financial review coordinated by the Seattle City Council.

The line is approximately 14 miles long. It will feature single track segments at its ends plus there will be a single track segment over the West Seattle Bridge. Providing double track over the bridge would result in substantial additional cost due to the need to reinforce the bridge:



The system will utilize 2-car Hitachi Standard Type monorail trains. There are presently 13 trains in the contract, which is enough to provide service at 8-minute intervals. There is an option to purchase 4 additional trains at $8 million dollars each. This would allow the service interval to be reduced to 6 minutes. The option must be executed within one year of signing the contract. The ultimate desire is to provide service at 6-minute intervals at the ends of the line and 3-minutes intervals downtown. There are further options to purchase trains at $11 million each:









The guideway will feature several different column types. Much of the guideway will follow the conventional side-by-side configuration. Sections of the guideway will utilize an "Iris" arrangement with one guideway beam higher than the other to allow a station off to one side of the street to service trains on both beams. The columns will be generally at one side of the street. In some areas, the cross-head supporting the guideway beams will be offset to provide greater clearance between the trains and the buildings:


Seattle Center

Second Avenue

Pioneer Square

West Seattle


The stations will be open to the air but will feature roofs and wind protection:




The following figures illustrate some of the typical station configurations:





The plan is for the system to open on December 1, 2010 provided that Cascadia can be given instructions to proceed by August 15 of this year:



For more information, see the Cascadia Monorail and Seattle Monorail Project websites:

http://www.cascadiamonorail.com/
http://www.elevated.org/

For an overview of the Cascadia contract, see the following links:
http://www.cascadiamonorail.com/cont...c_sum_0605.pdf
http://www.elevated.org/_downloads/p...iewBooklet.pdf


Last edited by greg_christine; June 22nd, 2005 at 06:23 AM.
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 07:04 AM   #54
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Yes, of course it will help Seattle. For a city that has always prided itself on its progressive views Seattle has been kicking and screaming into RT.
Still $2bilUS for 14 miles?!?! Vancouver's Millenium Line SkyTrain just completed 2 years ago cost $1.1bilCDN for 21km {14miles} and its elevated.
I think Seattlites are getting screwed big time.
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Old June 29th, 2005, 01:33 AM   #55
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Team Monorail claims it can build a better system for less.

Team Monorail (Bombardier) has updated their website to claim that they can build a better system for less than Cascadia Monorail (Hitachi). It should be noted that Team Monorail has not formally submitted a proposal to the Seattle Monorail Project (SMP). Team Monorail was unable to meet the liability requirements imposed by the SMP. The tentative contract that is presently being debated in Seattle is with Cascadia Monorail. The following comparison is from Team Monorail's website ( http://www.teammonorail.com/seattle/...-by-side.shtml ):

Trains and System Capacity: Cascadia Monorail / Team Monorail

Number of trains: 13 / 22
Station platform length: 90' / 130'
Initial capacity per train: 200 / 225
Maximum capacity per train: 200 / 300
Initial peak system capacity: 1500 passengers/hr / 3375 passengers/hr
Max system capacity - Downtown: 4000 pax/hr / 9000 pax/hr
Max system capacity - West Seattle and Ballard: 2000 pax/hr / 9000 pax/hr
Sufficient capacity to handle estimated north and southbound traffic (SMP estimates up 3000 passengers/hr or more will be needed by 2020): No / Yes

Train Service : Cascadia Monorail / Team Monorail

Rush hour train frequency: Every 8 Minutes / Every 4 minutes
Max train frequency - Downtown: 3 Minutes / 2 Minutes
Max train frequency - West Seattle and Ballard: 6 Minutes / 2 Minutes

Stations: Cascadia Monorail / Team Monorail

Number of stations included in contract: 16 / 19
Downtown Madison Station included in contract price: No / Yes
Avalon Station in West Seattle included in contract price: No / Yes
Elliott & Mercer Station included in contract price: No / Yes
Walking distance from 5th & Stewart Station to Metro Bus Tunnel, Westlake Center and downtown retail core: 3 Blocks / Direct Link

Single Beam: Cascadia Monorail / Team Monorail

Dual beam guideway over West Seattle Bridge: No / Yes
Max pax capacity across the West Seattle Bridge 2000 pax/hr / 9000 pax/hr
Sufficient capacity to handle estimated traffic across West Seattle Bridge (SMP estimates over 2000 passengers/hr will be needed by 2020): No / Yes
Ability to expand single beam guideway and stations in Ballard to dual beam: Unknown / Yes

Columns & Guideways: Cascadia Monorail / Team Monorail

Guideway beams: 7' 6" tall / 5' tall
Guideway columns: 4' 9" to 6' 9" wide / 4' wide
View blocking Iris columns along 2nd and 5th Avenue: Yes / No
Switch platforms placed on West Seattle streets: Yes / No

Cost: Cascadia Monorail / Team Monorail

Estimated cost of DBOM contract: $1.6 Billion / $1.3 Billion
Cost of additional trains and stations: over $100 Million / no additional cost
Total estimated cost of DBOM contract: over $1.7 Billion / $1.3 Billion
Estimated borrowing requirements: $2.1-$2.2 Billion / $1.7-$1.8 Billion
Estimated annual O&M costs: $39-$45 Million/yr / $30 Million/yr

Cost estimates based on Team Monorail's final working estimate in August 2004.

Team Monorail Bombardier Train


Cascadia Monorail Hitachi Train


For more information, see the following websites:

Team Monorail
http://www.teammonorail.com/

Cascadia Monorail
http://www.cascadiamonorail.com/

Seattle Monorail Project
http://www.elevated.org/
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Old June 29th, 2005, 01:40 AM   #56
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The bombaider comparsion to the hitachi one is a bang for the buck, dual beams instead of single beams, why did Team Monorail (bombaider) reject the liabity requirements in the first place and decide to compet with Hitachi with better options, something's fishy and I hope it's not a low quality trains or the guideways. Bombaider already have reliabity problems in Las Vegas when it opened in 2004.
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Old June 29th, 2005, 05:47 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoias
The bombaider comparsion to the hitachi one is a bang for the buck, dual beams instead of single beams, why did Team Monorail (bombaider) reject the liabity requirements in the first place and decide to compet with Hitachi with better options, something's fishy and I hope it's not a low quality trains or the guideways. Bombaider already have reliabity problems in Las Vegas when it opened in 2004.
The Seattle Monorail Project requires Joint and Several (J&S) liability guarantees from the consortium that builds the system. Under J&S liability, all the members of a consortium are financially responsible for correcting problems that are caused by any other member of the consortium. For instance, the Las Vegas Monorail was built by a consortium that included Granite Construction as the builder of the civil structures, Bombardier as the supplier of the trains, and Alcatel as the supplier of the automation system. There was a J&S liability agreement in place. The system opened several months late due to problems with the automation system. The consortium was assessed penalties of $85,000 per day for the delay. Granite Construction faced the possibility of being financially liable for the penalties even though the problems were due to Alcatel's automation system. Granite Construction was to be a part of the Team Monorail consortium for the Seattle Monorail Project (SMP). After the problems occurred in Las Vegas, Granite Construction dropped out of the consortium and Team Monorail announced that it would not submit a proposal because it could not meet the J&S liability requirement. In contrast to Team Monorail, the members of the Cascadia Monorail consortium were able to meet the SMP's J&S liability requirement.
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Old July 2nd, 2005, 10:52 PM   #58
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Can anyone tell me where to find a larger version of the expansion plan maps?
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Old July 2nd, 2005, 11:40 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudship
Can anyone tell me where to find a larger version of the expansion plan maps?
Second phase planning maps are available on the Seattle Monorail Project's website at the following webpage:

http://www.elevated.org/project/secondphase/

The first thing to note is that the maps define general corridors rather than specific streets along which future lines would run.

The second thing to note is that future expansion is dependent on the initial line being built. Given that the funding plan has been vetoed, there is no certainty that the project will go forward.
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Old July 3rd, 2005, 04:14 AM   #60
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I heard the Monorail project is dead. So is it all over?
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