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Old May 27th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #681
Jaxom92
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Aye. Nearly everybody was hit with the exodus from the cities, but despite the feelings at the time, Seattle was one of the least depressed inner cities in our nation. One fairly large city that comes to mind and epitomizes the much of the forces at work is Detroit. Compared to Detroit, Seattle was a lively metropolis. There are of course many, many other examples on many different scales. Some places have managed to recover, like Seattle. Some places have not. And there are pockets within cities that look good, and some that look bad.

So while people did leave Seattle, the severity of the migration wasn't on par with what was experienced in other parts of the country, particularly the east coast and upper-midwest. Your point is valid, though, everybody experienced the migration to the suburbs (and industry overseas).
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:37 AM   #682
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Quote:
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Don't be so smug.
Smug? How could you say that? I didn't say anything that I think it is better than others.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 06:57 AM   #683
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Quote:
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Smug? How could you say that? I didn't say anything that I think it is better than others.
You have my apologies if I have mischaracterized the tone of your post.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 07:12 AM   #684
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This thread has gotten a little off topic, but someone brought up the migration of people out of certain cities...

A couple of points about the short recession of Seattle in 1970, and the longterm recession in Detroit.

When Seattle experienced its downturn, it was due mainly to the Feds not supporting the Boeing SST program. The downturn was relatively short, and more importantly, most of those who lost their jobs did not leave the area, in fact, some credit many of those workers for sticking around and starting new businesses, kind of an enterpenurial seed for future companies like Microsoft, Starbucks, Amazon, etc.

In Detroit, the downturn has been long and continuous. Many left for the sunbelt. Poverty and decay took over. This did not happen in Seattle to any great extent. The comparisons are night and day. By the mid-70's, Seattle was on its way to a complete turnaround. Detroit was trying to dig out, and still is today.

I'm not trying to put down Detroit. Detroit has actually tried very hard to reinvigorate its downtown area. And the Detroit suburbs are generally healthy. But you can't compare the recessions in Seattle and Detroit. It just isn't a fair fight.

And to bring it back on topic, I'm not aware of any mass transit other than busses in Detroit, making it one of the largest cities in the US without. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Last edited by pwalker; May 29th, 2007 at 07:25 AM.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #685
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Quote:
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Don't be so smug. A lot of the members of this forum must be too young to remember Seattle in the 1970's:

Even then, there were maybe one or two years when the metro didn't grow in population.

Also, even while the city of Seattle went from 557,000 to 486,000 from 1960 to 1986, we were still adding housing units. That's because the average household size fell even more dramatically in that period, as families got smaller and as families move out and were replaced by singles and couples. This actually shows when you walk around town -- apartments from every decade, cheek by jowl. Now we're around 580,000, despite household size falling from 2.7 (1960) to 2.15 (1980) and probably around 2.0 now.

http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/stellent/...pds_006760.pdf
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Old May 29th, 2007, 08:31 AM   #686
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I'm guessing you're right that only Detroit has no rail, among the 5m+ cities.

On a tangent: Seattle can be proud of being the one bus-centered system that carries as many people as we do. Our per-capita transit use in 2000, both city and metro, was much higher than any other non-rail city, and much higher than many cities with rail, including some that claim to have better transit, like Portland. With our new rail systems and our recently-voted 20% increase in bus service, this is unlikely to change.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 09:33 AM   #687
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sweet pic:

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Old May 29th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker View Post
...
And to bring it back on topic, I'm not aware of any mass transit other than busses in Detroit, making it one of the largest cities in the US without. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...
Detroit has a fully automated peoplemover system that makes a loop through the downtown area. The system opened in 1987. The trains are the same as the first generation trains of Vancouver's Skytrain system. Despite the existence of the peoplemover system, the downtown area has continued to decline:



For more information, see the following websites:

http://www.thepeoplemover.com/WE-LL-...HERE!.id.2.htm
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/detr/detroit.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_People_Mover
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/detroit.htm
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:38 PM   #689
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Hmm...I guess I had heard about that. Kind of a glorified monorail.

Don't think it accomplishes much in the way of moving commuters in and out of the city though.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 07:12 PM   #690
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Quote:
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sweet pic
That is indeed a sweet pic. It's great to see the train in the tunnel. Been a long time coming for Seattle. Two years to go (plus 6 months for the airport). I'm already getting excited.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #691
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Now, if we could just get rid of the "waves".
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Old May 29th, 2007, 09:49 PM   #692
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It suggests a bumpy ride....
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Old May 30th, 2007, 12:27 AM   #693
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SEATTLE | Public Transport

Continuing From Part I...




Length: 15.6 miles and 13 stations

Completion date: summer 2009 / airport extension in Dec '09

Projected daily ridership: 42,500



Train specs (from website):
Length - 95 feet (30.8m)
Height - 12.5 feet (4.05m)
Width - 8.7 feet (2.8m)
Weight - 105,000 lbs
Max speed - 55mph (88kph)
Passengers per car - 200 pax, 74 seated
Power - 1500 volts D.C. traction power system
# of Vehicles - 35
Cost - $139 million for 35 cars
2-car Trains in initial service
platforms capable of 4-car trains when ridership grows.
Initial frequencies will be every 6 minutes at peak, 10-15 minutes off peak.




Extensions: (in orange)


University Link:
This extends Central Link northward to Capitol Hill and the University of Washington. It will be 3.15 miles long, add two stations, and by 2030, add an additional 70,000 riders to the system. It is scheduled to open in 2016.

North Link:
Part of Sound Transit 2 package being put to voters in November, this will extend Link past the University of Washington northward to Northgate, Lynnwood and up to 164th/Ash Way in Snohomish County. It will also extend southwards past the airport to Des Moines, Federal Way, and Fife to the Tacoma Dome where it will connect to commuter rail and Tacoma's lightrail line.

East Link:
Another part of the package, this proposed extension of Link light rail includes 19 miles between downtown Seattle, Bellevue, and Redmond/Microsoft via I-90 and Mercer Island.

Web Links:
Part 1: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=422473
http://www.soundtransit.org/x1171.xml
http://www.seattlechannel.org/issues/soundTransit.asp
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Old May 30th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #694
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New thread

wow, that is a cool picture!

Ok anyway I started a new thread since this one's reached its age. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=479818

Time to lock this one up!
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Old May 30th, 2007, 09:21 AM   #695
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NICE!
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Old May 31st, 2007, 02:07 AM   #696
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kub86, you may want to link to the new map:



East Link to Bellevue and Overlake (Microsoft HQ/main campus), with priority extension to Redmond.

North Link to Ash Way P&R (Mill Creek), north of Lynnwood.

South Link to Tacoma Dome Station.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:10 AM   #697
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Anyone ever ridden the Sounder Commuter rail before? Used to see the trains go by all the time in Edmonds. Does it stop downtown at all?
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Old May 31st, 2007, 12:38 PM   #698
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I think Sounder stops at King Street doesn't it?
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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:12 PM   #699
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Sounder stops are as follows:

North Corridor:
Everett, Edmonds, Seattle

South Corridor:
Tacoma, Puyallup, Sumner, Auburn, Tukwila, Seattle

Future service to Mukilteo, South Tacoma, and Lakewood. And the Seattle stop is at King Street Station.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 09:21 PM   #700
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Light rail vehicle in downtown tunnel:

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