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Old August 2nd, 2007, 02:14 AM   #921
citruspastels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
why cant they just look like poles?
any why can't apartments just look like the series of concrete boxes they are?




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Old August 2nd, 2007, 07:21 AM   #922
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^LAWL!

Nice comeback.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 05:33 AM   #923
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So while I was at the Bellevue Arts festival last weekend, I grabbed a brochure from the Sound Transit stand about the ST2 project. Just reading over it, I noticed part of pamphlet focuses on success stories from other cities (reducing traffic in Denver, capital investment in Dallas, etc.). The one that struck me was the one about Salt Lake City's TRAX light rail. It says in the little blerb about it that voters actually voted to increase taxes to bump the completion date of extensions up from 2030 to 2015. Anyone have any info on that? Whats the scale of the expansions they're proposing? Could we do something similar in Seattle, or is 20 years just how long its going to take to build all that stuff?
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Old August 4th, 2007, 06:17 AM   #924
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By 2027, I think. That's the whole system completion for st2. Light rail first broke ground in 2003.
Salt Lake City TRAX broke ground in around mid 90s and completed it in 1999. Looks like they're going to do that quicker than seattle's light rail system.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 06:39 AM   #925
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That would be very nice if Sound Transit can finish entire light rail system in Puget Sound way before 2027. I seriously doubt that will happen unless if all of us are willing to pay more taxes for it to finish it earlier than planned.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #926
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Photo of the week from Sound Transit website. Nice artwork at where the vent shaft is in downtown Seattle. Looks like wireframe 3-D objects.

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Old August 5th, 2007, 10:37 AM   #927
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You know what strikes me as interesting? The fact that Issaquah got juked out of ST2. Wouldn't Issaquah have made a more efficient long-term terminus for an Eastside line?
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Old August 5th, 2007, 09:15 PM   #928
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No... Redmond would have... Microsoft.

But I really think that Issaquah and Kirkland missed out... and I think Sound Transit really needs to figure out a way to connect those cities to the line...
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Old August 5th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
why cant they just look like poles?
Because the West's become so plain that branding's inevitable nowadays. Seattle's being smart, playful too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by citruspastels View Post
any why can't apartments just look like the series of concrete boxes they are?
Thank you (dead on -- I hadn't seen this).
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Old August 6th, 2007, 01:14 AM   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinessbeer55 View Post
No... Redmond would have... Microsoft.

But I really think that Issaquah and Kirkland missed out... and I think Sound Transit really needs to figure out a way to connect those cities to the line...
Do not forget to include Renton too. Renton is very important suburban community to include Sound Transit 2 plan too.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 06:16 AM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
That would be very nice if Sound Transit can finish entire light rail system in Puget Sound way before 2027. I seriously doubt that will happen unless if all of us are willing to pay more taxes for it to finish it earlier than planned.
2027? That's a long timetable. Haven't they already built a large portion of it?
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Old August 6th, 2007, 06:20 AM   #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinessbeer55 View Post
No... Redmond would have... Microsoft.

But I really think that Issaquah and Kirkland missed out... and I think Sound Transit really needs to figure out a way to connect those cities to the line...
The reason I say this is because Issaquah is currently one of the fastest growing suburbs. Ok, I haven't looked at the demographics lately, but the usual ST expresses are filled during peak hours on weekdays. When I meant long-term, I wasn't kidding. The mistake of not connecting Issaquah will become more and more evident as each decade passes.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 08:26 AM   #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northsider1983 View Post
2027? That's a long timetable. Haven't they already built a large portion of it?
What do you mean? They're buildng first step from Sea-Tac International Airport to downtown Seattle right now. They're slated to open in 2009. Second part from downtown Seattle to Husky Stadium will open in 2016. The entire of it including extend it to Lynnwood, Tacoma, Bellevue/Redmond will be completed by 2027.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #934
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I agree, 2027 is waaaay out there. According to this article, a metro can be designed and built in less than 5 years provided there's funds available. I don't know why it's taking us decades. I guess the trick is to have enough money to pay for multiple contractors who build the system simultaneously.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...102286983/pg_1
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Old August 6th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #935
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I think a good portion of it has to do with row acquisition and the geotechnical realities of our topography in the Seattle region. The latter necessitates many elevated and subterranean portions along the line which naturally takes longer to build than flat. SODO was the first section complete for that reason. Rainier valley, while flat, has taken longer because they need to keep the businesses and MLK way open as much as possible during construction. Beacon Hill tunnel is taking a while... So, when looking at the extension to UW and beyond to Northgate, nearly all of that will be underground and will logically take a while to build (8 years).

By comparison, Portland is building a new line from downtown and out south along the I-205 corridor. They started building it this year and will be done in 2009, at approximately the same time as we open our line that started being built well before that. The reason is they already have the ROW available along the 205 route, which was put there when the freeway was built for the express purpose of transit and/or freeway expansion. The downtown segment is on the surface streets along a corridor already used for bus transit. No auto traffic needs to be moved and the buses were easily rerouted. About half of that construction is done already. So, because of flat land, existing ROW, the project is expedited.

Seattle doesn't have those luxuries, except in the transit tunnel, which has it's own set of complications extending construction time anyway.
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Old August 7th, 2007, 02:26 AM   #936
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The first 15 miles of light rail in Portland opened in 1986. As of 2004, the Portland system stood at 44 miles. So, Portland expanded their light rail system by 29 miles in 18 years.

The Seattle system is to open in 2009 with 14 miles. Assuming ST2 passes, the system will expand to about 69 miles by 2027. So, Seattle will be expanding their system by 55 miles in 18 years. In comparison to the Portland system, the rate of expansion of the Seattle system is quite aggressive.

The opening of the Seattle system has been delayed by a lack of money due to overly optimistic estimates of the cost to build the system. The original plan was to open the entire line from the University to the airport in 2006. The current plan is to open the initial segment in 2009 with the full line from the University to the airport not opening until 2017 at the earliest. When the true costs to build the system became known, Sound Transit adopted a reasonable approach in delaying the start of construction and extending the period of construction. It's like the approach that a young couple would use in buying a house. Save your income until you can afford a down payment and then buy something modest as a first house.

The one aspect of Sound Transit's plans that continues to disgust me is the amount of money that is being spent on what was supposed to be light rail. I have already written several posts on this issue, so I will try to be brief. Portland is actually building light rail. Unlike Portland, Seattle is building heavy rail infrastructure and operating light rail trains on it.
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Old August 7th, 2007, 03:23 AM   #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
The one aspect of Sound Transit's plans that continues to disgust me is the amount of money that is being spent on what was supposed to be light rail. I have already written several posts on this issue, so I will try to be brief. Portland is actually building light rail. Unlike Portland, Seattle is building heavy rail infrastructure and operating light rail trains on it.
Yup! I do think that the light rail trains are a little more pleasing to the eye than heavy rail trains. Plus, Portland's system is designed for use with 2 car trains, Seattle's is designed for use with up to 4 cars per train.
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Old August 7th, 2007, 09:55 AM   #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom View Post
The reason I say this is because Issaquah is currently one of the fastest growing suburbs. Ok, I haven't looked at the demographics lately, but the usual ST expresses are filled during peak hours on weekdays. When I meant long-term, I wasn't kidding. The mistake of not connecting Issaquah will become more and more evident as each decade passes.
That is exactly what I said in this thread about two months ago. Issaquah, Bellevue and Redmond can probably have their own circulatory line. And then Seattle, Sea-Tac Airport can have their own line and just connect the two circulatory lines with a single line on the I-90 express ways, simple concept, difficult to achieve. It will make it easier for ST to determine the frequency of the trains as well, such as less Intercirculatory trains during non-peak hours on the I-90 express lanes or more Seattle circulatory route trains during boat shows or something.
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Old August 7th, 2007, 01:17 PM   #939
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Nice idea you got there.
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Old August 8th, 2007, 09:20 AM   #940
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I'm little concerned about the result of election for ST2 because today I read some opinion articles from local residents and some conversation I heard in my school. Some of them lost their supports in ST2 and wants to pay more taxes to repair/replace bridges and highways since the incident in Minneapolis. I have a feeling that issue is starting to kill ST2 ballot and the ballot for street/highway improvement gained its popularity dramatically. Also at school, I overheard some conversation from some students in my two classes that they plan to vote against ST2 and vote for highways bill since they feels that issues are more important to focus on than construct light rail. That is pretty sad to hear that. I understand that people are seriously concerned about public safety but we do need better public transit system too.
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