daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 25th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #1401
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post


1. While it is true that I don’t have much enthusiasm for Central Link, this does not constitute having a love affair with BRT. When I visit a new city, I will frequently spend an afternoon riding the rail transit lines. I have never gone out of my way to ride a bus line.

2. The Orange Line was built on the right of way of an abandoned rail line. Except for the turn around areas at Warner Center and the North Hollywood metro station plus crossings of intersecting streets, the Orange Line has an exclusive roadway that was built by LACMTA and is maintained by LACMTA. The operating cost for the Orange Line does include the cost of maintaining the roadway. It is true that most other BRT lines use existing roads for which the transit agencies are not responsible for providing maintenance. This is one of the major economic issues that led transit agencies to convert from streetcars to buses fifty years ago.
I stand corrected on the right of way! That's kind of cool, then, but in general, it doesn't make sense that O&M for a busway would be lower than O&M for electric rail. In general, when you look out fifty or a hundred years, the rail is *much* cheaper. There really is probably something missing from their maintenance numbers, or potentially it's just that the currently fairly low ridership isn't pushing the number of buses (where trains shine).

You're dead on with the economic issue. That's actually part of what I just wrote about over at Seattle Transit Blog: http://seatrans.blogspot.com
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 26th, 2007, 09:07 AM   #1402
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

What?! Is Central Link done already? Cause I don't see any updates.
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #1403
sequoias
Registered User
 
sequoias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest US
Posts: 1,612
Likes (Received): 14

It's not complete yet. They're still boring the 2nd tunnel at Beacon hill, finishing up the rainier valley corridor, station touch-ups, etc. It's basically roughly 80-85 percent complete so far. It should be all done by around 2008 for systemwide rail testing.
sequoias no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2007, 10:40 PM   #1404
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoias View Post
It's not complete yet. They're still boring the 2nd tunnel at Beacon hill, finishing up the rainier valley corridor, station touch-ups, etc. It's basically roughly 80-85 percent complete so far. It should be all done by around 2008 for systemwide rail testing.
Yeah, right now they're stringing catenary basically everywhere, so there's not much news to speak of. The TBM is late breaking through into Beacon Hill platform, but that was expected anyway.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 01:15 AM   #1405
Tcmetro
Registered User
 
Tcmetro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis/Chicago
Posts: 287
Likes (Received): 17

I wish they would open the line early. Maybe they can open it on weekends or something like the "T" Third Street Line in San Francisco.
__________________
metrology
Tcmetro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 02:49 AM   #1406
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcmetro View Post
I wish they would open the line early. Maybe they can open it on weekends or something like the "T" Third Street Line in San Francisco.
It's a brand new system; it requires significant safety and operations testing. If they opened early, they'd lose any positive news by having overlooked a failure in operations that needed to be tested first.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 03:23 AM   #1407
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcmetro View Post
I wish they would open the line early. Maybe they can open it on weekends or something like the "T" Third Street Line in San Francisco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
It's a brand new system; it requires significant safety and operations testing. If they opened early, they'd lose any positive news by having overlooked a failure in operations that needed to be tested first.
I think it would be a good idea; running maybe one or two light rail trains between Westlake Station and SODO Station. It would give people a chance to see what our money paid for and delays resulted in. And I don't think any operation failures will occur, I mean, the trains/tracks/stations weren't made in China!
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 04:26 AM   #1408
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
I think it would be a good idea; running maybe one or two light rail trains between Westlake Station and SODO Station. It would give people a chance to see what our money paid for and delays resulted in. And I don't think any operation failures will occur, I mean, the trains/tracks/stations weren't made in China!
Are you kidding me? What, do you think testing just isn't necessary? Do you just have no concept of the complexity of an advanced signal and CTC system?
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 04:42 AM   #1409
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Everything needs testing before it's put into service. If something does goes wrong during a commute, ST will get their butts sued off. Boeing tests planes before they are delivered for a reason.
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 06:02 AM   #1410
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,549
Likes (Received): 240

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
Are you kidding me? What, do you think testing just isn't necessary? Do you just have no concept of the complexity of an advanced signal and CTC system?
Just ignore him. He doesn't even know what he is talking about.
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 06:03 AM   #1411
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,549
Likes (Received): 240

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
Everything needs testing before it's put into service. If something does goes wrong during a commute, ST will get their butts sued off. Boeing tests planes before they are delivered for a reason.
I agree completely with you. Testings are very important. I won't ride it if it haven't tested before.
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 08:44 AM   #1412
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
Just ignore him. He doesn't even know what he is talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
I agree completely with you. Testings are very important. I won't ride it if it haven't tested before.
Yes, I realize that testing is important, but they should at least test the trains in "real conditions", if you get my drift.
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 08:46 AM   #1413
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
Are you kidding me? What, do you think testing just isn't necessary? Do you just have no concept of the complexity of an advanced signal and CTC system?
Man, you must really think i'm dumb. I mean look at the controls on the trains, the complexity of the trains, and what do you think the electrical wires are for? Sure, testing is a must, but they should at least give the public a try. And that "Made in China" thing was a joke. Geez....
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #1414
deasine
=)
 
deasine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,452
Likes (Received): 57

^I think your thinking really simple. You can't just let the public try a piece of infrastructure unless it's really tested and confirmed that it will work. What if something bad happens? What if there are errors and glitches with the system (they even occur when they are in operation? (Let's say the LRT gets stuck in a tunnel area and people have to walk out), how will the public and the media react? You should be perfectly aware of how media can turn a normal story into a bad one...
deasine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #1415
Tcmetro
Registered User
 
Tcmetro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis/Chicago
Posts: 287
Likes (Received): 17

I wasn't talking about opening it once it was finished. I meant like in SF when the T line was completed, it was under teasting, then a few months before service was scheduled to start, they let the public ride it on weekends. It is a neat idea, because it would give ST a boost in ratings, but if anything goes wrong, like UrbanBen said, they would get sued.
__________________
metrology
Tcmetro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2007, 11:33 PM   #1416
kub86
Twinkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle/Bellevue
Posts: 733
Likes (Received): 10

My own analysis says that East Link at first won't relieve any traffic to Seattle. It will actually decrease capacity Seattle-bound during its first phase of operations (and we're talking about 13 years from now when East Link first opens).

Regarding Seattle-bound commutes who also use 2 reversible lanes on I-90, that's an extra 4,400 vehicles/hr capacity (which is all HOV, so that's at least 2 people per car, or 8,800 people/hr including buses and vanpools). Since they're squeezing an HOV lane on the general purpose deck, that will mean an overall reduction of 2,200 cars/hr (4,400 people) capacity during Westbound commutes.

With 9 minute East Link frequencies, there'll be 6.6 trains/hr. With 2-car trains carrying 400 pax max, that's only 2,640 pax/hour!! Assuming the trains are packed! That's a net decrease of 1,760 people/hr of capacity to Seattle.

Packed 4-car trains will provide 5,280 pax/hr at 9 minute frequencies. But I don't think you'll see any benefits of light rail until frequencies drop to 4 minutes with 4-car trains: 6000pax/hr with 2 car trains or 12,000pax/hr with 4-car trains.

Eastbound commutes will see the greatest benefit since there's no reversible lane right of way---they'll be gaining an HOV lane plus rail capacity. Westbound commutes will see a decrease of an HOV lane, plus rail capacity that doesn't really match the lost HOV lane.

...just thought I'd share my latest revelation.
kub86 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2007, 01:57 AM   #1417
Tcmetro
Registered User
 
Tcmetro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis/Chicago
Posts: 287
Likes (Received): 17

4 minutes would put too much pressure on the tunnel, or would put it to its limits. You have to add in the trains running from the south, every 6-9 minutes. Off-peak frequencies will be 12 minutes, and peak would be 9. There are 3 proposed operations:
1. Ash Way to Kent-Des Moines Road
2. Ash Way to Overlake, or Redmond
3. Northgate to Tacoma Dome
__________________
metrology
Tcmetro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2007, 02:38 AM   #1418
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by kub86 View Post
My own analysis says that East Link at first won't relieve any traffic to Seattle. It will actually decrease capacity Seattle-bound during its first phase of operations (and we're talking about 13 years from now when East Link first opens).

Regarding Seattle-bound commutes who also use 2 reversible lanes on I-90, that's an extra 4,400 vehicles/hr capacity (which is all HOV, so that's at least 2 people per car, or 8,800 people/hr including buses and vanpools). Since they're squeezing an HOV lane on the general purpose deck, that will mean an overall reduction of 2,200 cars/hr (4,400 people) capacity during Westbound commutes.

With 9 minute East Link frequencies, there'll be 6.6 trains/hr. With 2-car trains carrying 400 pax max, that's only 2,640 pax/hour!! Assuming the trains are packed! That's a net decrease of 1,760 people/hr of capacity to Seattle.

Packed 4-car trains will provide 5,280 pax/hr at 9 minute frequencies. But I don't think you'll see any benefits of light rail until frequencies drop to 4 minutes with 4-car trains: 6000pax/hr with 2 car trains or 12,000pax/hr with 4-car trains.

Eastbound commutes will see the greatest benefit since there's no reversible lane right of way---they'll be gaining an HOV lane plus rail capacity. Westbound commutes will see a decrease of an HOV lane, plus rail capacity that doesn't really match the lost HOV lane.

...just thought I'd share my latest revelation.
Right, but your revelation is based on flawed data. The WSDOT says that the reversible lanes carry little over one lane of traffic at peak capacity, because both ends are limited by single lane ramps and stoplights.

Also, there's not really a peak direction on 90. East-west load is almost exactly balanced - 55% to 45%, with the trend continuing toward even. Simply closing the express lanes and adding 2-way full time HOV will increase overall capacity, even without building light rail.

Here's a PDF with some of this information: http://soundtransit.org/Documents/pd...nes_LtRail.pdf

All of this is, again, armchair planning. You're not taking into account the relief of taking 45,000 daily trips off all the Seattle roads, and you're not doing a 2030 comparison of congestion. In 2030, those 45,000 trips will be on the road, whether we like it or not. We can either see 90 traffic get much, much worse, or we can see it stay about the same and provide for that new traffic with rail. The comparison is clear, even when addressing just that corridor - addressing the feeders on both ends makes it even more obvious that light rail is vastly more cost effective than any other option.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2007, 03:58 AM   #1419
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Here's an FAQ on the East Link project found on the Sound Transit website. I've taken out the "stupid" questions and left the more interesting ones.

Q: Are there studies on the effect of rail transit on property values?
A: Yes, studies and reports on rail systems’ effect on property values throughout the United States have been published. The American Public Transit Association (APTA) has compiled a Resource Guide that collected reports on rail transit and property values from cities such as Dallas, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago and San Diego, to name a few.

The Resource Guide provides evidence that rail transit can have a positive impact on the values of residential and commercial properties. Because of the enhanced regional access provided by a light rail station, nearby locations can be very appealing to potential homeowners, renters and owners of commercial and retail businesses. Many other factors effect property values as well, but proximity to a rail station is likely to be positive.

Q: What is East Link?
A: East Link will extend up to 19 miles between Downtown Seattle, Bellevue and Redmond via I-90 and Mercer Island. The project’s length will depend on the funding level provided by the Sound Transit 2 ballot measure and decisions of the Sound Transit Board.

East Link is just one of several extensions to the regional mass transit system being considered by the Board as the region plans for the future. This package will define the East Link project’s length. As discussed below, the specific route and station locations will be determined following an extensive environmental process that includes detailed evaluation of multiple options and opportunities for public involvement.

Q: What property will be needed for the East Link project? What is Sound Transit’s real estate policy?
A: It is too early to know what property will be needed to construct the East Link project. In December 2006 the Sound Transit Board identified which alternatives to be studied in the draft EIS. Potential displacements and relocations will be analyzed and identified in the draft EIS, which will be released in fall 2008. At that time, Sound Transit will have a clearer indication of what properties are impacted by which alternative. Throughout the design process, Sound Transit will continue to optimize the project to better ascertain costs and try to avoid as many property acquisitions as possible. A preliminary list of the affected properties will be developed for preliminary engineering by 2009 and the final determination of properties to be acquired would take place during final design.

Relocations and displacements are part of the reality of building a major public works projects like a light rail transit system, especially in established communities and cities. Sound Transit’s relocation and acquisition program works closely with the affected parties throughout the process. Property owners and tenants are compensated for relocation costs. The law guarantees fair market value will be paid when a property must be acquired, and the owner is entitled to initiate court proceedings if a negotiated purchase cannot be reached. There are provisions for property owners to be compensated for costs such as appraisals and attorney fees.

Q: Does Sound Transit have a preferred East Link alignment?
A: No. Sound Transit, the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) and the WA State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) began the approximate three-year environmental process in September 2006 with public scoping. In December 2006, the Sound Transit Board identified a reasonable range of route alternatives to be studied in a draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). Sound Transit will prepare the draft EIS and conduct conceptual engineering on the identified alternative routes and stations beginning in 2007. In the fall of 2008, Sound Transit, WSDOT and the FTA anticipate releasing the draft EIS, which includes a 45-day public comment period. Once the comment period is complete, the Sound Transit Board will identify the project’s preferred alignment and station locations. Sound Transit will then prepare a final EIS, which will include responses to all comments received during the draft EIS comment period, and complete preliminary engineering. Sound Transit, WSDOT and FTA anticipate releasing the final EIS in late 2009. After the release of the final EIS, the Sound Transit Board will formally adopt the project to be built, followed by the FTA issuing a Record of Decision.

Q: What is an Environmental Impact Statement and how long does it take to produce?
A: An EIS is the often-lengthy document that a federal, state or local agency uses to evaluate the potential environmental impacts of its proposed major projects under the National Environmental Policy Act. State regulations also require the preparation of an EIS under the State Environmental Policy Act. A team of experts prepares a Draft EIS (DEIS) that includes:

• A description of the proposed action and why it is necessary;
• The environment that would be affected;
• Potential benefits and impacts of the proposed project alternatives; and
• A comparison of alternatives to the proposal.

Sound Transit is committed to drafting an EIS that contains sound analysis and engineering. Completing this work over the course of a year is timely, if not fast, for a project of this size.

Concurrent with the design and environmental analysis is public outreach. The public has an important role throughout the environmental process. Collecting feedback and incorporating it into the design process is a priority for Sound Transit.

To get a better understanding of the full range of analysis covered in an EIS, visit the Sound Transit website to view documents from other projects, such as the North Link Final Supplemental EIS. - back to the top

Q: What is the process for selecting alternatives to be studied in the EIS?
A: The process for selecting alternatives to study and ultimately a preferred alternative begins with a process of identifying candidate routes that would serve the transportation planning objectives set forth by the region in earlier planning work. The East Link alternatives were presented to the public in early September 2006 during what is called the public scoping process. During the scoping process, feedback was solicited on the alternatives being considered, and anif other reasonable alternatives have been missed and/or should be included.

In December 2006 the Sound Transit Board identified the light rail routes, stations and maintenance facility alternatives that will be studied in detail in the East Link Draft Environmental Impact Statement.

The Board’s action puts the agency on a path to continue conceptual engineering and preparation of the draft EIS, which is scheduled to be published in 2008. Following its release, the Board will identify a preferred route for the East Link project, with a final EIS anticipated for release in 2009.

Q: What steps must be completed before the Sound Transit Board selects route and station locations?
A: The East Link project has just begun an approximately three-year environmental process. The Sound Transit Board identified a reasonable range of alternatives to study in the EIS in December 2006. The draft EIS will be under development beginning in early 2007 through the fall of 2008, when it will then be released for public comment. During this time, a formal 45-day comment period will be held including public hearings. Once the comment period is over, the Sound Transit Board will identify a preferred alignment and station locations.

Q: Are the routes under consideration in Bellevue consistent with the City’s Comprehensive Plan?
A: Yes. All routes are consistent with the City of Bellevue’s Comprehensive Plan. The Bellevue Comprehensive Plan provides policy guidance and objectives for the regional transportation system, including to connect major centers and provide multiple access points to the system. The City’s High Capacity Transit Interest Statement contains more specifics, including Guiding Principles. This Interest Statement can be found at: http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/high_ca..._statement.htm. The City of Bellevue submitted a letter during the public scoping period that asked for multiple routes to be thoroughly evaluated through the environmental process. - back to the top



Q: How will surface streets be affected by light rail?
A: In cases where the route is at the surface street level or elevated, the right-of-way would generally be widened to maintain the existing number of through lanes, except in downtown Bellevue where widening is not an option due to the close proximity of buildings to the streets. The EIS will provide information about issues related to traffic, right-of-way requirements and street operations for each of the options analyzed. - back to the top

Q: Can light rail travel across Lake Washington via I-90?
A: Yes. The floating bridge was constructed with the intention of supporting rail in the future. Recent studies by WSDOT found that the I-90 floating bridge can support the weight of a light rail system. Sound Transit studies confirm that a light rail track system can be designed to accommodate the movements of the floating bridge.

In July 2005, when the Sound Transit Board updated its Long-Range Plan, it directed additional analyses of the I-90 corridor. This work included a light rail simulation test across the I-90 bridge, completed by WSDOT in September 2005, which confirmed previous computer modeling work and structural analyses finding the bridge capable of carrying light rail. The study also provided information about the bridge movements anticipated with light rail.



Q: Why is light rail being considered on I-90 instead of SR-520?
A: There are several reasons why I-90 works more effectively than SR-520 for an initial cross-lake light rail line. The SR-520 alternative presents both design and operating challenges.

There would be significant challenges connecting a surface rail line from SR-520 to a rail line over one hundred feet below the surface. The choices would be either a very expensive and difficult to construct underground ‘merge’ or, more likely, a second separate (and costly) right-of-way for the eastside line into Downtown Seattle.

I-90 was built for use as an HCT facility, and the connections into the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel are already in place.

Additional operation considerations stem from the fact that light rail ridership will be heaviest on the line north of Downtown Seattle and roughly equal to the ridership on the south and east lines combined. Ideal operations match train capacity with expected ridership. In this respect, I-90 works better than SR-520 for the initial cross lake line. Using I-90, Sound Transit would operate two separate routes— east-to-north and south-to-north. You may refer to this fact sheet for more information.

Q: How is Sound Transit working with other projects such as the I-405 Expansion and SR-520 Bridge Replacement projects?
A: Sound Transit works closely with other projects and jurisdictions throughout the life of a project. WSDOT is a co-lead on the environmental process and has staff assigned to the East Link project. Sound Transit project staff meet regularly with project staff of other agencies to share the latest project information. This ensures all agencies are working together as projects move forward. Sound Transit is a co-lead with WSDOT on the SR-520 Bridge Replacement and HOV Project.

Q: What is the decision-making process and how can I be involved?
A: Community members, organizations and businesses will have extensive opportunities to learn about the East Link project throughout the different phases of design and development. During public scoping, people were asked to provide input on the project’s purpose and need, range of alternatives and impacts to be considered, and design options. The public will continue to have multiple opportunities to discuss broad or specific project details with the project team. The input received from the public will be presented to the Sound Transit Board at key decision points.

As for traffic flow, would the new SR 520 bridge affect the number of travellers on I-90? Assuming that construction begins in 2012 and lasts until 2018-2020, i'm guessing that some traffic that currently travels from Redmond onto I-90 towards Seattle or other destinations would resume traveling on SR 520 as a result of the new HOV lane or in a couple of years take light rail. Therefore, that could relieve congestion on the proposed 8-lane I-90.

Now, some of you might be shocked that I am actually saying good stuff about light rail, but I am (I just don't like how the light rail plan has to be approved, constructed, and funded). So overall, light rail (in 2030) will reduce congestion, assuming drivers from Tacoma and south take light rail into Seattle (therefore reducing congestion on I-5, I-405, and I-90), drivers from Issaquah, Redmond and east will take some traffic off SR 520, I-405, I-90, and probably SR 522. As for the North Line, i'm not completely sure.
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2007, 06:53 AM   #1420
kub86
Twinkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle/Bellevue
Posts: 733
Likes (Received): 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcmetro View Post
4 minutes would put too much pressure on the tunnel, or would put it to its limits. You have to add in the trains running from the south, every 6-9 minutes. Off-peak frequencies will be 12 minutes, and peak would be 9. There are 3 proposed operations:
1. Ash Way to Kent-Des Moines Road
2. Ash Way to Overlake, or Redmond
3. Northgate to Tacoma Dome
Right, I found all that info on a ST report and posted it on pg 17 of the first Seattle LR thread; it's outdated but still might ring true. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...422473&page=17

Quote:
There are 3 lines:
1. Northgate - Port of Tacoma:...........4 car trains 10mn peak; 15 offpeak
2. Lynnwood - Overlake via Bellevue:..4 car trains 6mn peak; 15 offpeak
3. Lynnwood - Kent-Des Moines Rd:.....3 car trains 15mn day; 20 night

So the northgate - downtown segment will have about 3 minute headways peak combined while offpeak will have about 5 minute headways!
And there's also a news graphic on page 16 of the first thread that says the comfortable capacity of a 4-car train is actually 592. Not 800 as I used in my previous calculations. New calculations:
..................capacity....9 min freq.......6 min.....4 min
2-car trains: 296 pax....1973pax/hr....2960......4440
4-car trains: 592 pax....3907pax/hr.....5920......8880

So this means that upon initial operations, East Link will have a maximum capacity of moving 1,973 passengers per hour per direction. And according to ST, the frequencies would drop to 6 minutes using 4-car trains, resulting in moving 5,920 passengers per hour at full build-out.

And Ben's right, this is all armchair planning...but I'm a nerd and I just calculate this kind of stuff for fun.

Edit: I just read that I-90 pdf that UrbanBen posted... I'm not sure when that was made, but it looks like they want 4-car trains at 4 minute frequencies at build out now. Assuming the other lines remained constant, that'll put 25 trains per hour in the tunnel---about every 2.5 minutes...which seems a little too much for me. The other lines' frequencies are already bad enough so I doubt East Link will ever reach 4 minutes; it'll be more like 6 minutes.

Last edited by kub86; October 29th, 2007 at 07:04 AM.
kub86 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
king county metro, seattle, sound transit, us light rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium