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Old November 9th, 2007, 02:15 AM   #1501
taiwanesedrummer36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citruspastels View Post
that's not funny. totally juvenile and pointless.
Well, if you're going to ask such a dumb question, you should know what kind of response you're going to get.

How do I know Everett Station is filled up to capacity ..........
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Old November 9th, 2007, 02:52 AM   #1502
citruspastels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
Well, if you're going to ask such a dumb question, you should know what kind of response you're going to get.

How do I know Everett Station is filled up to capacity ..........
my point is, you have such a ridiculously everett-centric view. you think sound transit doesnt know how many people park there? they only have so many resources and not all of them are going to go to you
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Old November 9th, 2007, 03:28 AM   #1503
taiwanesedrummer36
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Originally Posted by citruspastels View Post
my point is, you have such a ridiculously everett-centric view. you think sound transit doesnt know how many people park there? they only have so many resources and not all of them are going to go to you
Well, my point is Sound Transit delayed construction of Everett park & rides so much that i'm getting a little ticked off. For example, the South Everett Freeway Station was suppose to be completed a couple of years back. But they had just started construction last year and are expected to be completed next year. Though that is remarkable progress, I wish they had completed earlier to serve the growing transit users, not to mention to reduce the added-10 minute side trip to the Eastmont Park & Ride. And the Everett Station expansion project (more parking spaces, pedestrian bridge, and administration building) was suppose to be completed several years ago (also). The empty lot on the east side of the railroad tracks at Everett Station sat empty for almost 5 years now.

Sound Transit is a regional transit authority, and I just think they should have began construction on park & rides in Everett on the dates they promised. Other subareas already have excellent park & rides, like Federal Way, Kent, Auburn, Tacoma, Issaquah Highlands, and many other park & rides are making incredible progress. I just think growing Everett shouldn't be left out of such expansion projects (especially with a continually-delayed construction timeline).
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Old November 9th, 2007, 05:56 AM   #1504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
Sound Transit is a regional transit authority, and I just think they should have began construction on park & rides in Everett on the dates they promised. Other subareas already have excellent park & rides, like Federal Way, Kent, Auburn, Tacoma, Issaquah Highlands, and many other park & rides are making incredible progress. I just think growing Everett shouldn't be left out of such expansion projects (especially with a continually-delayed construction timeline).
Sound transit is a regional transit authority and they are also an organization that has their priorities, cities with largest growth comes first. Don't forget other projects going on in Everett that will improve transportation. The I-5 widening, HOV lanes, overpasses. At least you guys get a new section of highway now when we are driving on concrete speedbumps down in Seattle.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 07:21 AM   #1505
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Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
Sound transit is a regional transit authority and they are also an organization that has their priorities, cities with largest growth comes first. Don't forget other projects going on in Everett that will improve transportation. The I-5 widening, HOV lanes, overpasses. At least you guys get a new section of highway now when we are driving on concrete speedbumps down in Seattle.
I-5 doesn't count. I-5 is under the jurisdiction of WSDOT, we're talking about Sound Transit right now.

At least in Seattle, you have light rail, you have many, many bus lines, and you'll get this:

Quote:
From the WSDOT:

We begin repairing the pavement on I-5 in 2009 between Tukwila and the King/Snohomish County line with the $21 million that the 2007 Legislature forwarded from an existing construction funding authorization. The pavement repair project will include diamond grinding and selection panel replacement, which will extend the life of the more than 40-year-old pavement.
From my point of view, Sound Transit has a recent history of delaying projects in Everett, mostly their fault, and then sometimes the fault of other agencies (cough "BNSF").
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Old November 9th, 2007, 08:09 AM   #1506
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Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
I-5 doesn't count. I-5 is under the jurisdiction of WSDOT, we're talking about Sound Transit right now.

At least in Seattle, you have light rail, you have many, many bus lines, and you'll get this:

From my point of view, Sound Transit has a recent history of delaying projects in Everett, mostly their fault, and then sometimes the fault of other agencies (cough "BNSF").
The jurisdiction doesn't matter. You pay taxes, the money goes to both. And Sound Transit needs WSDOT more than WSDOT needs Sound Transit. WSDOT will need to provide a decent infrastructure before Sound Transit adds more bus routes or build park and rides. There's no point of having a whole bunch of buses and park and rides if the buses are going to be stuck in traffic anyway. What WSDOT is doing is increasing road capacity to allow effective use of cars AND mass transit.

What I am saying is that there is a reason as to why they are delaying. From what I can see, it's because their timing and priorities simply haven't worked out to their advantage. They are reorganizing their priorities to be more cost-effective.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 09:37 AM   #1507
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What WSDOT is doing is increasing road capacity to allow effective use of cars
It's been proven time and time again that increased capacity only leads to increased congestion. Park and rides may do more for you than an extra highway lane.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 05:38 PM   #1508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
What WSDOT is doing is increasing road capacity to allow effective use of cars AND mass transit.
I have to call bull on this too. Politics just hasn't caught up to reality, as per usual.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 01:14 AM   #1509
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I have to call bull on this too. Politics just hasn't caught up to reality, as per usual.
Yeah, I mean look at the times before Sound Transit. Did WSDOT even try constructing direct-access ramps before Sound Transit (to improve transit)? No, they didn't. They only started to because they didn't want Sound Transit's direct-access ramps to screw up WSDOT's property (though I absolutely love the direct-access ramps).
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Old November 10th, 2007, 01:46 AM   #1510
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Yes I missed the point there that most congestions gets worse after adding lanes. I meant to say increase capacity by adding HOV lanes. Sorry for that.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 01:47 AM   #1511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
Yeah, I mean look at the times before Sound Transit. Did WSDOT even try constructing direct-access ramps before Sound Transit (to improve transit)? No, they didn't. They only started to because they didn't want Sound Transit's direct-access ramps to screw up WSDOT's property (though I absolutely love the direct-access ramps).
Perhaps we did not have as many safety issues nor the idea of direct-access ramps in the past due to a lower number of cars and buses?
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Old November 10th, 2007, 02:18 AM   #1512
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Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
Perhaps we did not have as many safety issues nor the idea of direct-access ramps in the past due to a lower number of cars and buses?
Okay, I forgot about that.

But still, too many delays!

I think the issue over HOV lanes needs to be evaluated also. Some people say that HOV lanes just also add to congestion because it's not that hard to add another person to a car (making 2+), so congestion would eventually increase. I don't think Seattle HOV lanes have that problem, but it shouldn't be ignored; it will haunt us eventually.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 03:14 AM   #1513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
Okay, I forgot about that.

But still, too many delays!

I think the issue over HOV lanes needs to be evaluated also. Some people say that HOV lanes just also add to congestion because it's not that hard to add another person to a car (making 2+), so congestion would eventually increase. I don't think Seattle HOV lanes have that problem, but it shouldn't be ignored; it will haunt us eventually.
Well the thing is, HOV lanes force people who want that extra speed to take anothe rperson. Personally, I believe the people who really benefit from HOVs are people who use mass transit. And also there is a HOT (high-occupancy toll) lane that's in the works now. I think it's already been implemented into some highways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a section of HOT lanes on SR167.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 03:20 AM   #1514
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The Sound Transit ridership report for the third quarter of 2007 has been posted:

http://www.soundtransit.org/Document...ip_Q3_2007.pdf

The following are some highlights for the Sounder commuter trains and the Express Bus service:

Third Quarter Boardings
ST Express Bus: 2,783,800
Sounder Commuter Rail: 579,109

Third Quarter Average Weekday Boardings
ST Express Bus: 37,689
Sounder Commuter Rail: 8,333

Year-to-Date Cost per Boarding
ST Express Bus: $6.40
Sounder Commuter Rail: $11.18

The following are the third quarter ridership numbers for the individual routes:

ST Express Boardings by Route
510/513 - Everett-Seattle: 191,905
511 - Lynnwood-Seattle: 214,975
530/532 - Everett-Bellevue: 53,864
535 - Lynnwood-Bellevue: 76,467
522 - Woodinville-Seattle: 242,438
540 - Redmond-U. District: 98,332
545 - Redmond-Seattle: 362,414
550 - Bellevue-Seattle: 387,282
554 - Issaquah-Seattle: 164,610
555/556 - Issaquah-Northgate: 50,286
560 - West Seattle-Sea-Tac-Bellevue: 172,723
564 - Auburn-Overlake: 80,444
565 - Federal Way-Overlake: 99,046
574 - Lakewood-Sea-Tac: 129,228
577 - Federal Way-Seattle: 48,585
582 - Bonney Lake-Tacoma: 23,550
585 - Lakewood-Auburn: 0
586 - Tacoma-U. District: 24,135
590-592,594-595 - Lakewood-Seattle/Tacoma-Seattle: 363,516
Total: 2,783,800
Avg Weekday Bdgs: 37,689

Sounder Commuter Rail Boardings by Corridor
Everett- Commuter: 52,351
Seattle Special: 16,573
Corridor Subtotal: 68,924
Tacoma- Commuter: 480,952
Seattle Special: 29,233
Corridor Subtotal: 510,185
Total: 579,109
Avg Weekday Bdgs: 8,333

The Express Bus service operates many more routes than Sounder (25 versus 2) and has a much higher schedule frequency (15 minutes or less during rush hour and one hour for the rest of the day versus 30 minutes during rush hour and just one trip off-peak). Even with the much smaller capacity of the buses relative to the trains, the Express Bus service manages to achieve higher overall ridership at much lower cost per boarding.

The Express Bus schedules can be found at the following link:
http://www.soundtransit.org/x6223.xml

The Sounder schedules can be found at the following link:
http://www.soundtransit.org/x71.xml
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Old November 10th, 2007, 03:24 AM   #1515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
Well the thing is, HOV lanes force people who want that extra speed to take anothe rperson. Personally, I believe the people who really benefit from HOVs are people who use mass transit. And also there is a HOT (high-occupancy toll) lane that's in the works now. I think it's already been implemented into some highways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a section of HOT lanes on SR167.
Yes, you're correct and the SR 167 HOT lanes are under construction and slated to open sometime next year.

But the current HOV lanes (such as along I-5, I-405, I-90, and SR 16) also cause congestion. The HOV lanes are not seperated from the mainline, therefore causing a safety hazard for drivers in the HOV lanes bypassing the congested mainline and drivers in the mainline cutting into the HOV lanes at a slow speed (you see what happens there?). Sure, we could have a such a system, but people could easily break the rule (if the barrier is just a space divided by two white lines). What do you guys think?
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Old November 10th, 2007, 03:51 AM   #1516
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I stumbled across a TransitNow/RapidRide PDF while I was google searching. It includes bus routing and frequency changes that are planned. It is a good find and is definatly worth a look: http://mkcclegisearch.metrokc.gov/attachments/26002.pdf.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 07:14 AM   #1517
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Originally Posted by taiwanesedrummer36 View Post
Yes, you're correct and the SR 167 HOT lanes are under construction and slated to open sometime next year.

But the current HOV lanes (such as along I-5, I-405, I-90, and SR 16) also cause congestion. The HOV lanes are not seperated from the mainline, therefore causing a safety hazard for drivers in the HOV lanes bypassing the congested mainline and drivers in the mainline cutting into the HOV lanes at a slow speed (you see what happens there?). Sure, we could have a such a system, but people could easily break the rule (if the barrier is just a space divided by two white lines). What do you guys think?
That's why we have direct access ramps
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Old November 13th, 2007, 12:52 AM   #1518
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Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
The Express Bus service operates many more routes than Sounder (25 versus 2) and has a much higher schedule frequency (15 minutes or less during rush hour and one hour for the rest of the day versus 30 minutes during rush hour and just one trip off-peak). Even with the much smaller capacity of the buses relative to the trains, the Express Bus service manages to achieve higher overall ridership at much lower cost per boarding.
...that's because we aren't looking at long-term costs. Buses last about 12 years before major overhaul. Train cars generally last twice that. And where's your quality of service metric? You can't possibly think it's valid to blindly compare operating costs for different things.

One more cranky thing: Where's your alternative for moving the peak-hour riders in th 167/169 corridor? You CANNOT achieve that ridership with bus service without major capital improvements that would not last as long as the Sounder capital improvements (which are perpetual agreements with one-time payment).

Last edited by UrbanBen; November 14th, 2007 at 01:02 AM.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 01:16 AM   #1519
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Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
That's why we have direct access ramps
They're an interim solution at best.

Compare:

1) Exiting, turning at a light, turning at another light, looping through a bus bay, arguing with passengers over fare, stopping for someone running, looping back out to a light, turning there, then turning at one more light...

2) Stopping, passengers board, starting.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 01:39 AM   #1520
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Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
They're an interim solution at best.

Compare:

1) Exiting, turning at a light, turning at another light, looping through a bus bay, arguing with passengers over fare, stopping for someone running, looping back out to a light, turning there, then turning at one more light...

2) Stopping, passengers board, starting.
Are you comparing direct access ramps to no direct access ramps? Haha arguing with passengers over fare...nice.

What about for carpool vehicles? It benefits them from not having to merge from the carpool lane and crossing three other lanes just to make it to an exit. Decreases the chance of collisions, decreases the chance of congestion due to slowdowns in merging, and basically it improves safety.

The I-90 Eastgate direct access ramps are a fine example of improved traffic flow. Even though the people who get off I-405 still have to merge onto I-90, at least people who were in the HOV lane won't have to merge with them too to get to the exit.

Slowdowns and congestions caused by merging: I think we've all been on I-5 near Northgate where people coming onto I-5 are scrambling to make it to an exit for SR520 on the other side of the freeway.
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