daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 23rd, 2007, 07:39 PM   #1581
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
Holy crap, mr. Drummer and mr. UrbanBen agreeing on something? Should I start looking for the 4 horsemen?
Well, it's math.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 23rd, 2007, 10:21 PM   #1582
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
Well, it's math.
when done right. See? Math is the unspoken peace treaty. Just make those Iranians learn math and we'll all be in agreement. "You guys have 2 nukes, we have 40,000. *dead silence* Good we're in agreement."
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2007, 11:03 PM   #1583
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
when done right. See? Math is the unspoken peace treaty. Just make those Iranians learn math and we'll all be in agreement. "You guys have 2 nukes, we have 40,000. *dead silence* Good we're in agreement."
*laughing*
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 02:01 AM   #1584
Jaxom92
Urban Studies Grad
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

In reference to UrbanBen's and Greg_Christine's disagreement, why don't either one of you post the figures for all the years the sounder and express bus have been in operation in the same manner as Greg_Christine did above. That way all the data will be out there.

I imagine the data will be in the respective year's dollars, so if one really wants to get technical, one can correct the figures to whatever year they want to. I doubt this is necessary considering that the real comparision here is between the systems, in each given year (or quarter).

As for projecting out into the future, that is always a best estimate, no matter how good your estimation model is, and any estimation model always takes into account previous trends. In arguing system financial effeciency, it's much more prudent to stick to past and current data, especially for people not directly working for Sound Transit.
__________________
Jax
Jaxom92 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 02:06 AM   #1585
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxom92 View Post
In reference to UrbanBen's and Greg_Christine's disagreement, why don't either one of you post the figures for all the years the sounder and express bus have been in operation in the same manner as Greg_Christine did above. That way all the data will be out there.

I imagine the data will be in the respective year's dollars, so if one really wants to get technical, one can correct the figures to whatever year they want to. I doubt this is necessary considering that the real comparision here is between the systems, in each given year (or quarter).

As for projecting out into the future, that is always a best estimate, no matter how good your estimation model is, and any estimation model always takes into account previous trends. In arguing system financial effeciency, it's much more prudent to stick to past and current data, especially for people not directly working for Sound Transit.
Why don't we, rather than doing tons of work for basically no benefit, just realize that Sound Transit isn't dumb?
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 03:03 AM   #1586
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
Why don't we, rather than doing tons of work for basically no benefit, just realize that Sound Transit isn't dumb?
Well, Sound Transit is kind of dumb (in terms of planning, construction schedules, and stuff). And they were REALLY dumb in the early days (I don't even want to be reminded of that). But as Sound Transit aged, people understood mass transit operations more and more so that there wouldn't be mistakes made again, and that has been the case.

And Jaxom92, why don't you go to the Sound Transit website and find out yourself. It's so easy to find it's easier than finding a Starbucks.....ha ha....
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 04:44 AM   #1587
Marcus797
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Likes (Received): 0

any recent construction pics?
Marcus797 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 05:12 AM   #1588
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

For anyone who is interested, the following are plots of the operating cost per boarding and average weekday boardings as recorded in the quarterly ridership reports:



greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 06:10 AM   #1589
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
For anyone who is interested, the following are plots of the operating cost per boarding and average weekday boardings as recorded in the quarterly ridership reports:
I see you made sure not to include anything more than a couple of years old.

Also, apples to oranges - Sounder operating costs include stations, ST Express operating costs don't include the cost of maintaining shelters/park and rides, as far as I'm aware.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 06:25 AM   #1590
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus797 View Post
any recent construction pics?
Here are some I found online, but don't expect the kind of extensive coverage the Canada Line has...











taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 01:41 PM   #1591
greg_christine
Registered User
 
greg_christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,008
Likes (Received): 142

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
I see you made sure not to include anything more than a couple of years old.

Also, apples to oranges - Sounder operating costs include stations, ST Express operating costs don't include the cost of maintaining shelters/park and rides, as far as I'm aware.
1. I included all the data that is available in the quarterly ridership reports. The Sound Transit website does not include ridership reports for earlier quarters and the first few ridership reports do not include operating cost data.

2. If ST Express does not cover the cost of maintaining shelters and park and rides, how is the cost of those facilities covered?
greg_christine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 05:06 PM   #1592
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
2. If ST Express does not cover the cost of maintaining shelters and park and rides, how is the cost of those facilities covered?
Through King County Metro, as they're largely KC Metro facilities.

Last edited by UrbanBen; November 27th, 2007 at 08:00 PM.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 05:37 PM   #1593
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Sorry,I didnt read through all 44 pages,but I have some questions:
1,will there be noise/vibrancy inhibitors at the urban parts of the tracks?
2,what will be the average speed/following frequency of the trams?
3,projected ridership?
thank you!
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 07:59 PM   #1594
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Sorry,I didnt read through all 44 pages,but I have some questions:
1,will there be noise/vibrancy inhibitors at the urban parts of the tracks?
2,what will be the average speed/following frequency of the trams?
3,projected ridership?
thank you!
1. Yes and no. Much of the urban portion of the corridor is underground. The elevated portions have padding between guideway and support columns that will effectively reduce vibration. The at-grade portion of the trackway (through residential areas) has shallow enough curves to prevent most noise. Station stopping/starting occurs in commercial areas.

2. At-grade portions will be limited to 35mph, grade separated portions will be 55mph. Average speed depends on what part of the line you're measuring - initial segment will have the lowest average, but airport link will increase that, and university link will increase that again. Further extensions will increase it still. Following frequency will be 6 minutes at peak service, 15 at maximum - but the system is built to operate at a 2.4 minute peak frequency (from International District Station northward) as ridership increases and as the system is extended.

3. 2030 ridership of only what's underway now (Airport to Husky Stadium) is projected at 114000. If ST2 were built, 2030 ridership would be 305000. True ridership will be somewhere in between, depending upon what extensions are built. Northgate is virtually assured, because for northward expansion, construction really has to start before Husky Stadium station opens - King County might fund that themselves in the absence of other options.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 08:03 PM   #1595
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Thank you!
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2007, 11:50 PM   #1596
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Thank you!
No problem.

By the way, I have the map of what we're building plus what was on the ballot (and failed) here: http://soundtransit2.com. The dark blue in the middle is what's under way, the red failed (but we'll probably see most of it on the ballot by itself this year), and the very light blue / cyan is Sounder Commuter Rail, currently in operation except for two stations at the southern end.

Remember to zoom in to see stations!
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2007, 12:29 AM   #1597
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
on the ballot
You have to vote about such things?
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2007, 01:22 AM   #1598
taiwanesedrummer36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Little Taipei, Everett
Posts: 1,029
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
You have to vote about such things?
Kind of good and kind of bad isn't it?

Here, you can choose (or at least try) to see where light rail will go to and what you want to see in terms of transportation improvements. But then there's all that technical and political details that can really screw up such a vote, as what happened here.
taiwanesedrummer36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2007, 01:28 AM   #1599
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
You have to vote about such things?
What throws a lot of great projects off is that people want those projects, but they don't want to pay taxes.
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2007, 01:28 AM   #1600
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

[QUOTE=UrbanBen;16746047]

2. At-grade portions will be limited to 35mph, grade separated portions will be 55mph. Average speed depends on what part of the line you're measuring - initial segment will have the lowest average, but airport link will increase that, and university link will increase that again. Further extensions will increase it still. Following frequency will be 6 minutes at peak service, 15 at maximum - but the system is built to operate at a 2.4 minute peak frequency (from International District Station northward) as ridership increases and as the system is extended.

I thought frequency was 4 minutes at peak service.
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
king county metro, seattle, sound transit, us light rail

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium