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Old October 18th, 2008, 10:42 PM   #181
serdar samanlı
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Are there any double-decker British trains?
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Old October 18th, 2008, 11:29 PM   #182
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Quote:
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Are there any double-decker British trains?
Nope
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Old October 19th, 2008, 02:17 AM   #183
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There used to be on the south east lines out of London. It didn't last long.

It was too cramped. Double decker train are really only viable where you can make them big enough to be comfortable. And that's anywhere in the world apart for the UK pretty much - the loading guage is often too small.

http://dart75.tripod.com/bddshis.htm

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Old October 20th, 2008, 08:20 PM   #184
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For those seriously interested in the British rail network and trains -

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/

Free weekly magazine available to download (and all previous editions are available still to download). Happy reading/viewing!
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Old October 20th, 2008, 10:59 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
There used to be on the south east lines out of London. It didn't last long.

It was too cramped. Double decker train are really only viable where you can make them big enough to be comfortable. And that's anywhere in the world apart for the UK pretty much - the loading guage is often too small.

http://dart75.tripod.com/bddshis.htm
Ive seen those before, and although they definitely looked cramped, they dont appear to be split-level (ie the lowest floor is platform level). It would seem like you could get an extra 2 ft or so of height by lowering the lower level, which might just make them viable (maybe). Would still be pretty cramped of course.
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Old October 20th, 2008, 11:49 PM   #186
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I went on a double decker in Germany - the top deck had me very nearly ducking, at about 5' 3" - I think the height must have been 1.6m of that deck.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 03:42 AM   #187
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Britain needs to quit being so bloody stingy and make the investments necessary to have a top rate rail system. CHina is going apeshit in expanding its rail network. The West needs to follow CHina's lead.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 03:52 AM   #188
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You can't really compare the railway networks or the situation of China and Great Britain*! The British network is historic (something like 90% built pre-1880 or so) and the population density of the country (as well as limitations regarding historic structures, protected landscapes, etc) mean that upgrading and expanding the railways is expensive and troublesome. China is a rapidly industrialising nation - Britain went through that phase over a century ago and built its railway network accordingly. Since then the country and its railways have changed massively as the country has de-industrialised. There has been enormous investment in the past decade in Great Britain, both for passenger and freight, and the numbers using the network, and the freight moved, is up to near all-time record highs. Lines previously closed in the 1950s and '60s are re-opening or are planned to. Scotland and Wales are leading the way in this regard.

*note that Great Britain has a railway network and Ireland has a separate network with a different gauge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Ireland

Last edited by Manchester Planner; October 21st, 2008 at 04:07 AM.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 11:25 AM   #189
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Question being here is whether new railway lines these days, are they being built to the W6 Loading gauge, ie, the Berne Loading Gauge or are they still being built to UK Loading gauge spec? Reason being is that I would love to see something like the Australian Millenium train or the TGV Duplex come to the UK. For those trunk routes like London-Manchester or London-Birmingham, where additional capacity would be nice!

Another question is whether with any rail replacement/track relaying, is there any effort being made into relaying them to the Berne Loading Gauge?

I think I read a report somewhere that put the cost of the entire network being put to Berne Loading gauge at the region of £150 billion, which I think makes a wholesale conversion unviable, but I've always wondered whether doing it piecemeal on the mainlines would be financially viable.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 11:37 AM   #190
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I'm not sure whether or not I'd like to see the Millenium train being run on British rails - it's an okay train, but I wouldn't say it stands out from its class. The TGV Duplex, however, I agree 100% - I'd love to see them running!
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:38 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirtaheri View Post
Question being here is whether new railway lines these days, are they being built to the W6 Loading gauge, ie, the Berne Loading Gauge or are they still being built to UK Loading gauge spec? Reason being is that I would love to see something like the Australian Millenium train or the TGV Duplex come to the UK. For those trunk routes like London-Manchester or London-Birmingham, where additional capacity would be nice!
The most important issue is catering for demand that exists - and that is high cube deep sea containers which cannot operate on most of the network. At present there are no double decker trains that need this extra size but there are freight wagons that do. I think NR are taking a progressive approach to increasing guage on the mainlines, but from a freight perspective. Upgrades when renewals take place is only done where it would have a future as they are under pressure to cut costs and converting a little used branch line to Berne guage would be folly of course. They are required to give provision for future electrification however, especially when re-doing signalling.

I haven't checked for any specifics but these two documents should have some answers in there for you.

(watch out 13Mb) http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...ight%20rus.pdf


http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...l%20update.pdf
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 07:29 AM   #192
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The W6 loading gauge is the most wide spread and rolling stock built to that gauge should be able to run on most of the network.

There are a few diagrams of different UK and European loading gauges here that might be of interest.

W6 is pretty tight really - in fact very similar to the New Zealand standard loading gauge - which meant that all those ex-British Rail carriages exported to NZ didn't require much work clearance wise to run (narrow gauge bogies lowered the height a little). Some even went into service with British Rail "No Smoking" and "First Class" signs still stuck inside the double glazed window units and still fitted with BR seats.
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 12:39 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I went on a double decker in Germany - the top deck had me very nearly ducking, at about 5' 3" - I think the height must have been 1.6m of that deck.
They certainly offer than 1,80 m. I can comfortably stand there. And I'm 1,80 m tall.
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 03:48 PM   #194
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funny, I distinctly remember that I was one of the few in our group that could stand without problems. Then again, a lot of the group were rather tall, but it was more than just the giants that had to stoop to get a seat. It was easily bearable (and rather funny - I love it when people who are tall have problems because of it, as normally they make fun of my smallness), but rather claustrophobic compared to what I was used to (then again, that was A stock - the largest, most spacious, trains in the UK!) Then again it was 8 years ago.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #195
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CREWE







And another railway mecca in Britain - Doncaster:

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/doncas...-doncaster.htm
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 03:19 PM   #196
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Old documentary from about 15 years ago called "Old, Dirty & Late" about the problems of commuting in south east London. A lot has changed since then, the railways have been privatised, all the old trains have bee replaced and even more trains are now using these tracks.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J-peIDOiTt8&NR=1
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Old November 21st, 2008, 05:59 PM   #197
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Congested UK railways costing passengers dear

LONDON, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Increasing congestion on the British railways is magnifying the effect of disruptions and leaving passengers facing costly delays, the government spending watchdog said on Tuesday.

The warning comes at a time when Network Rail, which owns and operates Britain's rail infrastructure, is under pressure to avoid a repeat of last year's Christmas getaway period, when they were fined 14 million pounds after engineering works overran, delaying the journeys of 200,000 people.

"Rail passengers pay handsomely to travel on trains and yet, through incidents on the network, are still suffering expensive delays," said Edward Leigh, chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts.

The Committee, which published a report into how incidents on the rail network are managed, found the reliability of trains has only just returned to levels that existed before the Hatfield train crash in October 2000.

The crash, which killed four people, led to widespread engineering work to replace sections of track.

During 2006-2007, over 1.2 billion passenger journeys were made in Britain, but the committee says this number is growing and greater congestion on the network means greater disruptions when problems occur.

The committee found that nine out of 10 services in 2006-2007 arrived on time but delays still cost passengers, who already paid a total of 5.1 billion pounds in fares, an extra 1 billion pounds in terms of lost time.

It also said the rail industry, which last year received more than 5 billion pounds in subsidies, needs to improve communications with the emergency services to minimise disruptions to the network. It found fire and rescue services often did not even know who to contact.

The report also found passengers whose trains are delayed are not kept properly informed by train operators. This finding was echoed by Passenger Focus, the national rail watchdog, who said only 34 percent of passengers are satisfied with the way train companies deal with delays.

"Passengers are rightly angered when their train comes to a halt for a lengthy period and nobody in the train crew can give them any information," Leigh said.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 10:46 PM   #198
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Britain needs true 300 + km/h HSR. For such a developed and wealthy nation, with so many kilometers of track and so many people traveling via rail, to not have more than just one high speed rail line (London-Paris) is very sad.

Then again, it is a shame that the richest country in the world, America, has such a shitty rail system as well.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:56 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Britain needs true 300 + km/h HSR. For such a developed and wealthy nation, with so many kilometers of track and so many people traveling via rail, to not have more than just one high speed rail line (London-Paris) is very sad.

Then again, it is a shame that the richest country in the world, America, has such a shitty rail system as well.
This argument has been used before. High speed rail won't necessarily result in that great an advantage in journey times unless built on a completely segregated network due to the frequency of stops along the main rail corridors. Considering the journey from London to Manchester can be done in ~2 hours by rail I wouldn't complain too much about the state of British railways with regards to speed nor frequency (as that route is being bumped up to a 20 minute frequency). I'd hardly put Britains railways in the same bag as American passenger rail services by any stretch of the imagination though.

If you were to moan about the price, however, I'd agree with you 100%.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:53 AM   #200
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High speed rail won't necessarily result in that great an advantage in journey times unless built on a completely segregated network due to the frequency of stops along the main rail corridors.
I don't understand, where has high speed rail not been segregated?
I'm not sure about your point about the frequency of stops either, London - Glasgow trains are slowed down by many stops yes, but if Virgin didn't stop at these places there would almost be no one stopping there as the line is at capacity. HSL is as much to relieve capacity, have intermediate places served by intermediate services and make long distance travel separate as it is about decreasing journey times. Source Netwrok Rail.
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