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Old February 13th, 2015, 09:08 AM   #2081
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
If border and customs were not an issue, and let's assume for the sake of argument they aren't, would it be theoretically possible to run through trains from France (Calais-Folkstone) to Heathrow without resorting to any third-rail track?
Certainly. There's a connection from HS1 to the NLL.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #2082
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Realistically, when can we expect:

(a) electrification London-Reading-Bristol-Exeter
(b) conversion from third rail to cantenary wiring on SE England
(c) electrification Belford-Leicester-Sheffield-Leeds
(d) electrificaiton Liverpol-Manchester*-Leeds/Shefield
(e) improvements and upgrades (serious ones) Londonderry - Belfast
(f) electrification Bristol-Newport-Swansea
(g) electrification Belfast-Irish border (combined with works on the other side as well)

*of all 4 or 5 train routes between both cities, which is more likely to be electrified first?
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Old February 13th, 2015, 02:29 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Realistically, when can we expect:

(a) electrification London-Reading-Bristol-Exeter
(b) conversion from third rail to catenary wiring on SE England
(c) electrification Bedford-Leicester-Sheffield-Leeds
(d) electrification Liverpool-Manchester*-Leeds/Sheffield
(e) improvements and upgrades (serious ones) Londonderry - Belfast
(f) electrification Bristol-Newport-Swansea
(g) electrification Belfast-Irish border (combined with works on the other side as well)

*of all 4 or 5 train routes between both cities, which is more likely to be electrified first?
(A) London-Reading-Bristol is in progress.
Exeter is another matter, but that would probably extend to Plymouth, as most trains do, and that is complicated by Dawlish.
(B) there's supposed to be a conversion of Southampton-Basingstoke as a trial by 2020, after which we will see what costings and technical issues look like.
(C) Bedford-Sheffield is in progress; Sheffield-Wakefield is supposed to be in the 2019-2024 plan
(D) Liverpool-Manchester is nearly complete, and should be running in a few weeks. Leeds by 2018. Manchester-Sheffield is supposed to be in the 2019-2024 plan.
(E) No idea about Northern Ireland
(F) Due to be starting next year, I believe, for completion by 2019
(G) No idea about Ireland.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 02:37 PM   #2084
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Are the plans for how Waterloo will be redeveloped public yet? Or even existing?
Extension of existing platforms for 12-car trains and reopening of former Eurostar platforms
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Old February 13th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #2085
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reopening of former Eurostar platforms
Which is underway at the rate of about 1 every 6 months.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 03:33 PM   #2086
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=524

Tracklaying completed on Borders Railway
Friday, February 13, 2015



SCOTTISH cabinet secretary for infrastructure Mr Keith Brown joined contractors at Tweedbank station on February 12 to attach the final rail clip on the Borders Railway, marking the completion of tracklaying on the 48km line from Newcraighall, south of Edinburgh

The £294m non-electrified line will open in September, restoring rail services to an area isolated from the network since the closure of the Edinburgh – Carlisle Waverley Route in 1969. Around 90% of the new railway uses the alignment of the abandoned line

...
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Old February 13th, 2015, 08:00 PM   #2087
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(D) Liverpool-Manchester is nearly complete, and should be running in a few weeks.
Which of the routes? Warrington or Earlestown (which are 2 of the 4 going more direct bewteen both cities)?
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Old February 13th, 2015, 08:40 PM   #2088
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Which of the routes? Warrington or Earlestown (which are 2 of the 4 going more direct between both cities)?
Earlestown. The stretch from Manchester to the West Coast Main Line was completed for December 2013, and Manchester-Glasgow and Manchester-Edinburgh trains have been EMUs (class 350/4) since then.

The section from the WCML to Edge Hill is being worked on - it was due for December 2014, but has not been completed as yet, as is the line from Liverpool via St Helens Central to Wigan North Western.

The short stretch from Ordsall Junction through Salford Central to Manchester Victoria is also being worked on presently - it was also due for December 2014, but is even later.

These works will, in combination, allow trains from Liverpool to travel to all four Manchester stations and to Salford Central on electric traction, and will allow Liverpool-Preston to use electric haulage as well.

Further works in the NW region include Manchester-Bolton-Preston, Manchester-Bolton-Wigan (Wallgate), Preston-Blackpool North and Windermere-Oxenholme.

Proposed works also include Blackpool South-Kirkham and Wesham conversion to tram (with overhead 750V DC electric power), and Salford Crescent-Wigan Wallgate via Atherton 750V DC overhead electrification for tram-train usage, as well as a number of schemes for 25kV AC overhead electrification for future budgets (notably the Liverpool-Manchester via Warrington Central, Warrington-Chester and Chester-Crewe lines). Various promoters, including local councils and rail user groups have proposed electrification every piece of track in the region (except, unless I've missed it, the part of the Settle & Carlisle line that is in the NW); Network Rail are still working through the list and prioritising them.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 10:57 PM   #2089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po8crg View Post
(A) London-Reading-Bristol is in progress.
Exeter is another matter, but that would probably extend to Plymouth, as most trains do, and that is complicated by Dawlish.
(B) there's supposed to be a conversion of Southampton-Basingstoke as a trial by 2020, after which we will see what costings and technical issues look like.
(C) Bedford-Sheffield is in progress; Sheffield-Wakefield is supposed to be in the 2019-2024 plan
(D) Liverpool-Manchester is nearly complete, and should be running in a few weeks. Leeds by 2018. Manchester-Sheffield is supposed to be in the 2019-2024 plan.
(E) No idea about Northern Ireland
(F) Due to be starting next year, I believe, for completion by 2019
(G) No idea about Ireland.
They are not converting Southampton - Basingstoke, this is a misunderstanding of this project. the SW mainline through Winchester and Eastleigh will remain as it is. What they are doing is OHLE from Spitfire Junction down the Andover Salisbury line as far as the triangular junction then south down the Romsey line then into the docks, I understand this will be a freight only option to improve goods movement u to the Midlands. As far as I understand it the wires will not go as far as Southampton Central from this Western approach.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:25 PM   #2090
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I'm presuming in the meantime that the new coaches will still feature beds that are positioned long-ways as oppose to across the width of the car, because of that wonderful restrictive British loading of ours...
Eh? The current Mark 3 sleeper carriages have beds that are width-ways across the coach, just like on the European mainland. The restrictions compared to the continent that I can see are:

1. Much narrower corridors - you can't pass anyone in the Mk 3 corridor
2. Only two berths per compartment - there's no space above the corridor for a 3rd berth

The sleeper carriages themselves are Mark 3, but the lounge car and seated carriage on the Fort William section are Mark 2.

I took a trip up on Monday night and have to agree that while they're old, the rolling stock is certainly fit for purpose. Here are some photos from the trip.

Narrow corridor!
IMG_0859 by csd75, on Flickr

It's pretty tight in the sleeper compartments! There's a washbasin under the purple panel under the window.
IMG_0721 by csd75, on Flickr

Lounge car - Mark 2 stock.
IMG_0748 by csd75, on Flickr

Vestibule of a Mark 3 sleeper. Note the slam door.
IMG_0860 by csd75, on Flickr

Waiting for my haggis in the lounge car!
IMG_0728 by csd75, on Flickr

Class 90 loco at Euston. The Highland Sleeper is the longest passenger consist in scheduled service in the UK, and only just about fits into the long platforms in Euston.
IMG_0726 by csd75, on Flickr

The Highland Sleeper splits into three separate diesel-hauled trains at Edinburgh Waverley. The Fort William section comprises of two Mark 3 sleepers, a Mark 2 lounge car, and a Mark 2 seated coach. Here's the consist with a Class 67 diesel loco at Fort William, having been shunted clear of the platform to allow the 11.40 to Glasgow to call.
IMG_0873 by csd75, on Flickr

The scenery on the West Highland line is pretty spectacular.
IMG_0845 by csd75, on Flickr

IMG_0852 by csd75, on Flickr

Deep snow in the cutting.
IMG_0823 by csd75, on Flickr

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Last edited by csd; February 14th, 2015 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Fix broken Flickr links!
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:32 PM   #2091
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Quote:
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Eh? The current Mark 3 sleeper carriages have beds that are width-ways across the coach, just like on the European mainland.

In that case, my mistake. I'm sure I had a read an article in one of the more serious railway magazines saying that it's not possible to have Continental style sleeping car configurations due to width restrictions. But may be they were referring to a particular style of sleeping car configuration as oppose to just the way the beds are laid.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #2092
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
In that case, my mistake. I'm sure I had a read an article in one of the more serious railway magazines saying that it's not possible to have Continental style sleeping car configurations due to width restrictions. But may be they were referring to a particular style of sleeping car configuration as oppose to just the way the beds are laid.
Maybe it was referring to the configuration in the berth? A continental loading gauge sleeper has space over the corridor for stashing your stuff, and is tall enough for three bunks vs the two in the Mark 3s.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:43 PM   #2093
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May be. You certainly know more than me about this, I'm still a sleeper train virgin.

And while I have nothing against the Mark III sleepers I am looking forward to popping my sleeper train cherry with the new WCML coaches that are being built.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:47 PM   #2094
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May be. You certainly know more than me about this, I'm still a sleeper train virgin.

And while I have nothing against the Mark III sleepers I am looking forward to popping my sleeper train cherry with the new WCML coaches that are being built.
You should definitely try the Mark 3s before they're gone in 2018! The £64 advance fare for London - Fort William is pretty good value...

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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:49 PM   #2095
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I think its refering to the configuration inside the sleeper compartment, on the continent they do have more room and feel like they have a lot more room, there isnt enough room to open your suitcase and still move about in the cabin.

TedStriker you should try it its fun... I did a tour first time, booked sleeper up to Scotland and then day coach all over the west highland line with hotel stops over night.
Its magic...
No room for a snuggle with the missus though, the cabins are to small LoL
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #2096
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Yeah I think I will. I've taken the sleeper train before but I was very poor back then and so I only sat among the drunks in a mark II carriage. It wasn't painful but it was about as romantic as a journey on the Overground at rush hour.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:52 PM   #2097
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Plus I got out at Glasgow. Next time I'll carry on into the hills...
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Old February 14th, 2015, 01:59 AM   #2098
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Maybe it was referring to the configuration in the berth? A continental loading gauge sleeper has space over the corridor for stashing your stuff, and is tall enough for three bunks vs the two in the Mark 3s.

/csd
Ironically, 1520-born people tend to complain how RIC (continental coaches) is cramped and small.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 12:21 PM   #2099
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Ironically, 1520-born people tend to complain how RIC (continental coaches) is cramped and small.
I think Indian trains are even bigger still, aren't they?

Sweden has a bigger loading gauge than UIC. And of course the Americans have giant double-decker containers, though there isn't any passenger stock to the full size.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 01:13 PM   #2100
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You should definitely try the Mark 3s before they're gone in 2018! The £64 advance fare for London - Fort William is pretty good value... /csd
Scotrail still do "Bargain Berths", have to book 8-12 weeks in advance but you can get London-Edin/Gla for £19. Bargain indeed
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