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Old December 21st, 2016, 07:04 AM   #2561
00Zy99
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Something very 90s-ish about the 465.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 12:43 PM   #2562
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Electrification works delay due to lost skills - NCE

Link to article.

High Speed 2 (HS2) chairman Sir David Higgins has blamed a non-skilled workforce for the delays on the Great Western electrification works.

In a parliamentary transport select committee inquiry taking evidence on HS2, Higgins said that the skills needed to carry out the electrification works had been lost in this country and that the industry had not known how to do the works.

”The industry can deliver, he said. ”They delivered it with the Olympics and the electrification programme at the same time. That is when we do something new, but the problem on Western — there is a Public Accounts Committee report coming out on that — was that it was new. We had not done electrification for 20 years. We had lost the entire skills of the industry. No one had designed electrification. On Western, the electrification was designed by accessing people in Austria and working with an Italian university, asking, ’How do you do overhead lines?’ No one had built it before. On the technical skills, no one had done anything remotely like that before.”

He went on to say that despite this, he was positive that the industry could deliver great projects on time and on budget and had shown this with projects such as the redevelopment of both Kings Cross and Birmingham Station and the whole re-signalling of Reading.

”If we look back at huge projects — for example, Stafford, which was a big interchange project and an alliance programme done in the same way as the Hitchin flyover — it was ahead of schedule and well under cost. It was a very successful project,” he said.

”The industry has a history and a habit of doing incredibly complex projects that it knows well on time. The message from electrification is not to stop things for a generation and then do a massive programme in one go when the industry cannot possibly cope. For the electrification, everything was planned in one go.”

Higgins was speaking at a one-off inquiry session into HS2 by the Transport Committee last week.



My Comment
Has it really been 20 years since a UK electrification Project? Airdrie-Bathgate was opened in 2011 and even the Bradford Electrification (Leeds to Bradford FS, Skipton and Ilkley) was opened in the early 00s.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 07:35 PM   #2563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Something very 90s-ish about the 465.
Because they were built in the early 90s

I quite like them, for trains which are more than 20 years old they are holding pretty well. On metro routes I actually prefer them over the 367s with its bad seats and lack of toilets.

Few more shots of class 465:
Dulwich

DSC03217
by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Peckham

DSC08710
by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Peckham

DSC08713
by Geogregor*, on Flickr

From Waterloo towards London Bridge:

P6021160
by Geogregor*, on Flickr

The same

P6021159
by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Grove Park

P6041217
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P6041226
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P6041227
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P6041257
by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Last edited by geogregor; December 22nd, 2016 at 11:56 PM.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 11:52 PM   #2564
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I don't recognize all those locations. Do you have place names? Especially 2nd and 3rd from bottom.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:37 AM   #2565
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That's the cross at Lewisham. The tracks on the right go towards London Bridge, the ones on the left go to Victoria.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 11:57 PM   #2566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
I don't recognize all those locations. Do you have place names? Especially 2nd and 3rd from bottom.
I added some names.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
That's the cross at Lewisham. The tracks on the right go towards London Bridge, the ones on the left go to Victoria.
The tracks on the left go not only to Victoria but also to fast lines up to New Cross and towards London Bridge.

A few shots from foggy bu busy morning in Hither Green, lots of class 375:

IMG_20161222_082104230_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082147337_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082350952_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082356830_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082414783_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082455003_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082458966_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082518829_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


IMG_20161222_082523842_HDR
by Geogregor*, on Flickr
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 03:56 AM   #2567
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Thank you very much for adding the names, I really appreciate it.
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Old December 24th, 2016, 04:48 PM   #2568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbornite View Post
Here's my shot of Eurostar Class 373 half sets 3003 and 3004 being hauled to Kingsbury Scrapyard in Warwickshire by GBRF Class 66 66768.



So far, three sets out of 16 have been sent there, and the rest will be sent in due course with one going every month.
Why cant they reuse them on the East Coast Mainline?
They can run on it and are far better than anything that's on it today or planned in the bear future.
Have a depot that could access Kings Cross.
It would be a waste of it's power but they are ready and waiting for any line-speed upgrades
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Old December 24th, 2016, 07:19 PM   #2569
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You would have to crack them open and pull out a few trailers, but it would still be cheaper than new trainsets. What might be really interesting would be restoring the 3rd rail shoes. Through service from Scotland to the Channel, anyone?
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Old December 25th, 2016, 02:53 PM   #2570
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Something that puzzles me is the limited amount of on-screen information available on English stations. Some networks are deploying cheap LCD monitors everywhere, but Network rail seems to be completely oblivious to any network-wide plan for more use of electronic screens. This would involve not only train information but also things like platform train assignments etc.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 01:46 AM   #2571
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Eurostar TMST sets are heavy, rusting, power hungry, and totally inadequate for the ECML because of their internal configuration. The limited amount of external doors will mean long dwell times, something which is undesirable on a busy line and in busy termini.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 09:34 PM   #2572
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How about Cardiff Valleys then, after their electrification

The class 37 loco-hauled sets also didn't sport many doors when they were in use there
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Old December 29th, 2016, 08:03 PM   #2573
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London - China intermodal service set for January launch
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Old December 30th, 2016, 12:56 AM   #2574
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As good an example as you can find to prove brexit is a stupid idea.
Explain the connection between a Japan-EU/UK production and assembly project and BREXIT.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 04:35 PM   #2575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalopianShrew View Post
Why cant they reuse them on the East Coast Mainline?
They can run on it and are far better than anything that's on it today or planned in the near future.
Have a depot that could access Kings Cross.
It would be a waste of it's power but they are ready and waiting for any line-speed upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Eurostar TMST sets are heavy, rusting, power hungry, and totally inadequate for the ECML because of their internal configuration. The limited amount of external doors will mean long dwell times, something which is undesirable on a busy line and in busy termini.

Alex has summed it up well. You are wrong in saying that they would be "far better" then anything else. GNER actually used some Eurostar sets on Leeds services for a while but they weren't that suitable.

Just accept the facts: the 373s are outdated, in need of overhaul, power hungry and generally unsuitable for the classic railway network.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 04:36 PM   #2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
You would have to crack them open and pull out a few trailers, but it would still be cheaper than new trainsets. What might be really interesting would be restoring the 3rd rail shoes. Through service from Scotland to the Channel, anyone?
Sadly not. Google "nightstar" and "north of london Eurostar" to see what happened last time.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #2577
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Sadly not. Google "nightstar" and "north of london Eurostar" to see what happened last time.
The market might have changed since then, but I was actually thinking about domestic services along the Channel coast-Brighton, Portsmouth, Dover, etc.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 08:54 PM   #2578
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Vivarail D78 unit on fire at Kenilworth
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Old December 31st, 2016, 01:40 AM   #2579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
The market might have changed since then, but I was actually thinking about domestic services along the Channel coast-Brighton, Portsmouth, Dover, etc.
You can't just "pull out a few trailers" as there are Channel Tunnel safety requirements that require all passenger trains to be at least 375 meters in length*. Platform lengths are a further limiting factor, typical British platforms aren't much longer than 240 metres.

This means that you'd have to get rid of a significant amount of coaches to get the length of a 373 down to at most 240 meters. This greatly reduces the viability of the business case, as 1/5th of the length of the train consists of power cars that can't seat passengers.

Even if you would get the necessary clearances to run with shorter units and the business case would be viable, going from the Eurotunnel to Brighton along the Coastway still isn't really viable (nor practical) for a couple of reasons:

1) The line from Ashford International to Hastings (the Marshlink Line) isn't electrified, an 373 can't run there on its own. So, you'd have to haul it with a diesel locomotive.
2) As a diesel locomotive counts towards the length of the train (including at platforms), this means that another coach has to go.
3) Not all diesel locomotives are fit for purpose, as the locomotive would have to provide electrical power to keep the passenger coaches alive (lighting, toilets, the bar, wi-fi)
4) The train would have to reverse at Ashford International and Eastbourne, while the diesel locomotive would have to be coupled/uncoupled. This takes a considerable amount of time (15 minutes in each station?).
5) There are no "secure zones" in Brighton, so where are you going to do the necessary security and border checks?

A different route could be taken to get to Brighton from Ashford (going through Tonbridge and reversing in Redhill) without a diesel locomotive, this route isn't really viable either. Platform lengths are still a limiting factor, and as the Brighton main line is quite full there might be capacity constraints or limitations to what the power supply can provide.

Going further (e.g. to Portsmouth) isn't possible due to the infrastructure layout in Brighton.


* This has to do with emergencies: when a train comes to a halt inside the tunnel, the safety authority wants all passengers to be able to get to an emergency exit by walking down the train and not having to descend into the tunnel.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 03:38 AM   #2580
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I am talking about an ENTIRELY DOMESTIC set of services. No security, no passports, nothing.

Glasgow-Brighton, Edinburgh-Portsmouth, Manchester-Folkestone. etc. etc. Various exact termini would be dependent on traffic patterns.

Wouldn't a set of power cars with ~8 trailers work? Maybe one power car could be converted into a passenger/baggage trailer? I suspect it would still be cheaper than building new EMU sets for the purpose.

Yes the market is not the biggest, but it would be a way to take advantage of existing capabilities cheaply. Trains would go around London on the WLL or maybe through Thameslink during the off-hours.
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