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Old January 28th, 2009, 05:48 AM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Man, I love mayonnaise too.

Regarding Euston station, I know there were some plans to renovate it (including the possibility of rebuilding the famous Euston Arch) but I think they're still just plans. I don't think a timeline has been put into place.

When does the refurb of King's Cross Station happen anyway?

Pardon my french but ... Euston has a simple solution ... starts with DEMO and ends at ON ...
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Old January 28th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
... intermediate non powered jacobs bogies are much more effective than intermediate underframe hung motored axles.
Could you explain that sentence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
If you don't count the Eurostar (too long) all other TGV's have roughly as many axles motored as any other High Speed trainset ... with an advantage ... they have biger and more powerfull motors installed (one of the disadvantages of the AGV will preciselly be the limited power of their motors)
Reseau/Atlantique/Duplex/Thalys, all have only 4 motor bogies (8 powered axles). In comparison, Velaro has 16 motored axles, Series 700 E-sets has 24 motored axles.
Of course the number of motored axles means nothing by itself, also very important is the adhesive weight.
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Old January 28th, 2009, 02:54 PM   #383
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The simplest analogy is comparing a 2 wheel drive with a 4 wheel drive.
Which has better acceleration?
4 Wheel of course because torque is distributed to all 4 wheel trying to pull the weight then two.
When broken down to simple high school physics statements like this;

Quote:
What is the difference between standard Shinkansen/ICE3 power distribution between bogies and the power distribution of a TGV trainset ???
Is pure nonsense.

Statements like this;
Quote:
On a sidenotice .. .the Javelin difers NOTHING from the standard 25kv50HzAC EMU's that run in the UK in tlhe last half a century(?) ... just a comuter stiled EMU capable of 225km/h on a 300km/h track ... if the discussion is about lack of capacity induced by missmanagement and lack of vision it's a clear example ... how many minutes each day will be axed in HS1 due to the "slow" trains mixed with eurostar ?????
Is really twisting the actual event that is occuring. There are stations along the way with short intervals and top speed is meaningless if it takes too much time to reach top speed.


I also really do not understand why number that have been produced have anything to do with performance.
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Old January 28th, 2009, 03:05 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post


"British Railways - Pics, Info, News, Views"


Since there are no NEWS , INFO or Pics here is my view:
You just have to go looking for it. Most of it is normally bad press like this for example....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...-rail-contract

but if you look abit harder you find things like this... http://news.opodo.co.uk/articles/200...-New-train.php

There is abit of news which has been missed. That possible Heathrow hugh speed station and I've just found THIS!! One of Manchesters new trams Under Construction. It runs on rails so it counts.

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Old January 28th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #385
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[QUOTE=hoosier;30166696]No one is forcing you to ride the train, but highways are congested and expanding them is not feasible.

If the UK undid the privatization of its railroads and invested more money in them the price would go down.

In the U.S. roads are heavily subsidized without question but every rail line is subject to intense scrutiny and cost/benefit analysis.[/QUOTE

Another problem of travelling by car is the risk of high accident rates. Also when you are travelling by train, you can relax while watching the landscape. In car, you have to lock your eyes to the road
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Old January 28th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #386
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Main advantage of the ICE3: You can see out of the frontwindow of the train as a passenger .
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Old January 29th, 2009, 09:04 AM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredyGr View Post
Could you explain that sentence?


Reseau/Atlantique/Duplex/Thalys, all have only 4 motor bogies (8 powered axles). In comparison, Velaro has 16 motored axles, Series 700 E-sets has 24 motored axles.
Of course the number of motored axles means nothing by itself, also very important is the adhesive weight.
Not quite right:

ICE1 = 357m long , 280km/h , 8 out of 56 axles motored , 9600Kw/56 = 171kw per axle (traction suported on 8 axles)
- seriously underpowered when the consist has 14 intermediate cars

ICE3 = 200m long , 330km/h ,16 out of 32 axles motored (1 out of 2 coaches motored , go see the specs for yourselves) , 8000KW/32 = 250KW per axle (traction suported on 16 axles) <<< ICE3 fro mDB only reach 320km/h in french LGV's ... limited to 300km/h domestically
- 16000KW in a 400m consist

0-Series = 401m Long , 220km/h , 64 axles motored at 185KW each , 11,84MW

N700 = 405m/205m (16/8 cars) , 300km/h , 64/32 xles motored , 17MW/8500KW , 305KW per axle

TGV Sud-Est = old 270km/h , 6400KW

TGV Reseau = 200m long , 300km/h , 8 out of 26 axles motored , 8800KW , 338.6KW per axle
- 17600KW in a 400m consist

TGV POS = 200m long , 320km/h , 8 out of 26 axles motored , 9600KW , 369KW per axle
- total 19200KW in a 400m long consist ...

TGV Duplex = 200m long , 320km/h , 8 out of 26 axles motored , 8800KW , 369KW per axle
- total 17600KW in a 400m consist ...


The seemingly impressive spec numbers of the N700 are trashed to pieces when reality starts to kick in (or not quite that much trashing) ... TGV concept by design is much more evolved in technical terms than the N700/ICE3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
The simplest analogy is comparing a 2 wheel drive with a 4 wheel drive.
Which has better acceleration?
4 Wheel of course because torque is distributed to all 4 wheel trying to pull the weight then two.
When broken down to simple high school physics statements like this;

Is pure nonsense.

Statements like this;


Is really twisting the actual event that is occuring. There are stations along the way with short intervals and top speed is meaningless if it takes too much time to reach top speed.


I also really do not understand why number that have been produced have anything to do with performance.
It's torque and adhesion wheel/rail that does the miracles in acceleration ...

If you want to compare 4-wheelers to 2 wheelers you can only do so when comparing the Shinkansen with the ICE3 ...

When you compare the TGV with the ICE3/Shinkansen you need to compare the entire concepts ... no middle term in comparing them

a 400m long TGV would weight as much as 766 tonnes (16/52 axles motored) .... a similarly long ICE3 would weight 820/860 tonnes (32/64 axles motored) ... a N700 weights 715 tonnes (56/64 axles motored)

Some considerations are in order:

ICE3 = too heavy , light axleload , 1/2 the axles motored , a little underpowered (compared to the other too)

TGV = light , medium/high axleload , 1/3 axles motored , high powered

N700 = light , ligh axleload , 9/10 axles motored , high powered

Choose what you prefer ...
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Old January 29th, 2009, 09:10 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysimo123 View Post
You just have to go looking for it. Most of it is normally bad press like this for example....

...

but if you look abit harder you find things like this...

There is abit of news which has been missed. That possible Heathrow hugh speed station and I've just found THIS!! One of Manchesters new trams Under Construction. It runs on rails so it counts.

I was thinking more about something like this:

Quote:
Balfour, Carillion, Morrison chase £130m Glasgow Airport rail link
12:18 27 Jan 2009
By Brian Warner


Seven major players are on track to pitch for the key element of the flagship Glasgow Airport Rail Link project, worth between £90m and £130m.

Three of the contestants have got together to bid under the banner of BMV (Balfour Beatty / Morgan Est / Vinci).

Irish firm Roadbridge will price the job in joint venture with John Sisk.

The remaining two contractors, Morrison Construction and Carillion, will pitch as lone raiders.

It is understood that Skanska also looked at the project, but decided against tendering for it.

The tender competition is due to kick off in spring, which means that the rail link is set to be operational early in 2014.

The winner of the contest will build the St James Spur - the main 2 km-long branch line viaduct stretching across the M8 to the new airport station.

The main rail link uses the existing line between Glasgow Central and Paisley Gilmour Street, with track upgrade work from Shields Junction to Arkleston Junction to reinstate a third track.

Transport Scotland took over the project last summer and following pre-tender meetings with contractors, certain elements of the main contract will now be bid separately to reduce the level of cost risks on the scheme.
Source: http://www.contractjournal.com/Artic...rail-link.html

Or even like this:

Quote:
Network Rail chooses 7 for £800m track enhancements framework

10:40 21 Jan 2009
By Will Mann



Network Rail has announced the names of seven contractors who will form its £800m track enhancement framework - and warned that it wanted more value for money from its track renewals programme.

The seven contractors are:
Amey Colas
Babcock Rail
Balfour Beatty
Jarvis
Carillion
Grant Rail
Trackwork

The first four of these firms are existing NR track renewals contractors. The work available includes line-speed and junction improvements and work on big projects such as Thameslink and Reading.

Meanwhile, NR has said it wants more out of its track renewals contractors during the next five-year period, when £4bn will be invested.

NR said: "Total outputs for the five years will remain as previously planned although adjustment in phasing in the early part of the period will result in less volume of track renewals in the first year to allow time for new, more efficient ways of working to take effect, delivering the value for money needed to meet tough ORR output targets."
Source: http://www.contractjournal.com/Artic...framework.html

And Heatrow:

Quote:
£1.5bn Heathrow East terminal delayed

12:40 20 Jan 2009
By Grant Prior


BAA has confirmed that the construction schedule on its £1.5bn Heathrow East project has slipped until the end of this year.

The news came as the government gave its backing to ambitious plans to build a third runway and sixth terminal at the airport worth up to £7.6bn.

The airports operator confirmed the concerns of contractors, first revealed in CJ last summer, that delays were hitting the Heathrow East scheme.

A BAA spokeswoman said that full construction work would not start until the end of 2009.

She added: "Enabling works are going on at the moment and we are moving as fast as we can."

The job was originally scheduled to start in late 2008 and to be ready in time for the 2012 Olympics.
ADVERTISEMENT



But it has been hampered by the T5 opening fiasco and funding problems.

Industry experts believe BAA could struggle to finance the new runway and terminal plans, which are due to get underway from 2015 and create 60,000 construction jobs.

The overall Heathrow expansion project announced last week is expected to increase the airport's capacity by 50%.

Alongside the new Heathrow proposals, Secretary of State for Transport Geoff Hoon announced plans to improve the high-speed rail network linking the airport with London and the Midlands.

BAA welcomed the new plans, but described the timetable for a completed third runway and sixth terminal by 2020 as "ambitious".

One contractor said: "The bottom line is that BAA is struggling to raise funds. That has had an impact on Heathrow East and will be a decisive factor in any future plans.

"It's all very well talking about this, but you need the money in place to get it started."
Nothing that we didn't know already of course ... but you guys could be posting some news now and then.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 09:15 AM   #389
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Quote:
Network Rail tenders for Crossrail delivery partner
13:39 12 Jan 2009
By Neil Gerrard


Network Rail has announced it is tendering for a delivery partner to oversee its £3bn programme of work on Crossrail.

Robbie Burns, Network Rail’s major programme director, Crossrail, said: “This tender is an important first step towards delivering Crossrail and the improvements at Reading. We are looking for an organisation that has the key skills to complement our experienced in-house team effectively.”

Network Rail is responsible for all the design, development and delivery of Crossrail works outside the central tunnel, including:
Electrifying the western part of the route, including substantial re-signalling along the whole of the route
Rebuilding at Paddington station, including a reworking of platform and interchange between the new Crossrail station and mainline platforms
Station rebuilds including Abbey Wood, Ilford, Romford and Ealing Broadway
Junction remodelling, including an airport junction flyover to Heathrow
Bridge rebuilds
Platform extensions at over 20 stations along the route

The delivery partner will also oversee the progression of plans for a new grade separated junction to the west of Reading and more platforms at the station.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 09:26 AM   #390
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Is anyone else expecting huge cost blow-outs during the construction of Crossrail?



It is a beautiful concept though...
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Old January 29th, 2009, 10:24 AM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Some considerations are in order:

ICE3 = too heavy , light axleload , 1/2 the axles motored , a little underpowered (compared to the other too)

TGV = light , medium/high axleload , 1/3 axles motored , high powered

N700 = light , ligh axleload , 9/10 axles motored , high powered

Choose what you prefer ...
Talking about technical possibilities is completely pointless when we are only comparing the acceleration and deceleration of EXISTING trainsets. It is obvious that not even Pendos have the acceleration matching N700, I'm not sure if Bombardier Regina/Zefiro can come close to that figure, besides, I'm really looking forward to see high speed EMUs being built in Derby...(which is a different story)
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Old January 29th, 2009, 11:12 AM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
It's torque and adhesion wheel/rail that does the miracles in acceleration ...

If you want to compare 4-wheelers to 2 wheelers you can only do so when comparing the Shinkansen with the ICE3 ...

When you compare the TGV with the ICE3/Shinkansen you need to compare the entire concepts ... no middle term in comparing them

a 400m long TGV would weight as much as 766 tonnes (16/52 axles motored) .... a similarly long ICE3 would weight 820/860 tonnes (32/64 axles motored) ... a N700 weights 715 tonnes (56/64 axles motored)

Some considerations are in order:

ICE3 = too heavy , light axleload , 1/2 the axles motored , a little underpowered (compared to the other too)

TGV = light , medium/high axleload , 1/3 axles motored , high powered

N700 = light , ligh axleload , 9/10 axles motored , high powered

Choose what you prefer ...
Ahh, I don't think you even understand what your talking about.
4 wheel drives vs 2 wheel drives (2axle powered vs1 axle powered) even if you have the same weight and same engine, the 2 axle drive will always be faster in acceleration because with the 1 axle drive system the second trailing axle acts as resistance.
Second, power distribution for 4 wheel drive divides the torque between the axles so there is less loss in traction between wheel and track so the driver can throttle up faster while the 2 wheel drive system needs to be more careful or it starts a wheel spin.
Again simple high school science or in this basic automobile knowledge.
The push/pull locomotive simply can not compete against an EMU in terms of acceleration/deceleration rate.

Here is another interesting comment I found on Wiki that may explain the reason why intervals are longer for Euro star.

Quote:
Allowance for accurate performance calculations for timetabling purposes - In a locomotive - hauled train, if number of cars is increased in order to meet the demand, acceleration and braking performance drops. This calls for the necessity that, the performance calculations are to be done taking the heaviest train composition into account.
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Old January 29th, 2009, 11:45 AM   #393
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http://www.jbce.org/files/hitachipresentation.pdf

Shinkansen series 0 : 972 ton

Shinkansen series 100 : 925 ton

Shinkansen series 300 : 711 ton

Shinkansen series 700 : 708 ton

Shinkansen series N700 : 700 ton
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Old January 29th, 2009, 12:41 PM   #394
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great pics on the first page!
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Old January 30th, 2009, 10:03 AM   #395
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I think Brown's support has gone unnoticed by the national press:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/br...ead.4920064.jp
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Old January 30th, 2009, 10:44 AM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Ahh, I don't think you even understand what your talking about.
4 wheel drives vs 2 wheel drives (2axle powered vs1 axle powered) even if you have the same weight and same engine, the 2 axle drive will always be faster in acceleration because with the 1 axle drive system the second trailing axle acts as resistance.
Second, power distribution for 4 wheel drive divides the torque between the axles so there is less loss in traction between wheel and track so the driver can throttle up faster while the 2 wheel drive system needs to be more careful or it starts a wheel spin.
Again simple high school science or in this basic automobile knowledge.
The push/pull locomotive simply can not compete against an EMU in terms of acceleration/deceleration rate.

Here is another interesting comment I found on Wiki that may explain the reason why intervals are longer for Euro star.
Because of your track record I can't say I'm on either your or his side. This is simply a TGV fanboy vs Shinkansen fanboy argument in which both of you seem to have some valid points but they are simply opposite perspectives/opinions of the same issue. It's like arguing about the truth of Christian faith amongst different denominations in which some theories or opinions actually contradict with each other, so whichever side is right, the other side must be wrong. All I have to say is that it is impossible to imagine an engine/motor from a different carriage to drive the axles on a different carriage, unless it is actually a generator which provides electricity for the motors of the axles on that other carriage.
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Old January 30th, 2009, 01:26 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taikoo.city View Post
Because of your track record I can't say I'm on either your or his side. This is simply a TGV fanboy vs Shinkansen fanboy argument in which both of you seem to have some valid points but they are simply opposite perspectives/opinions of the same issue. It's like arguing about the truth of Christian faith amongst different denominations in which some theories or opinions actually contradict with each other, so whichever side is right, the other side must be wrong. All I have to say is that it is impossible to imagine an engine/motor from a different carriage to drive the axles on a different carriage, unless it is actually a generator which provides electricity for the motors of the axles on that other carriage.
You'll have to clarify that one since my analogy is about cars with a drive shaft. I am just saying that if their are two sets of identical trainsets in terms of weight, overall power output, etc and the only difference being one being EMU and the other being Push pull then the EMU will alwas have faster acceleration/deceleration rate.(In fact even if theEMU is slightly heavier and less powerful there is a very good chance that the EMU will be faster in terms of acceleration/deceleration rate)

As for EMU vs pushpull locomotives or any other comparitive analysis for that matter they'll always have both pros and cons.
For example, EMUs are more sophisticated in design with more parts so maitenace takes more time and are costly.
Locomotives are less costly per train set than EMUs for the same reason.
Locomotive will achive faster top speed than EMU with same overall power outage due to motor resistance.
Locomotives have more flexibility and can be substituted for small locomotives where the gradients of the route become steeper and more power is needed. Also, different types of passenger cars (such as reclining-seats, compartment cars, couchettes, sleepers, restaurant cars, buffet cars etc.) can be easily added to or removed from a locomotive hauled train. However, it is not so easy for a multiple unit since individual cars can be attached or detached only in a maintenance facility. This also allows a loco - hauled train to be flexible in terms of number of cars. Cars can be removed or added one by one, but in multiple units two or more units have to be coupled. This is not so flexible.
Obsolescence cycles - Separating the motive power from the payload-carrying cars means that either can be replaced when obsolete without affecting the other.

You just need to know what are the advantages and disadvatages.
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Old January 30th, 2009, 05:19 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
Ahh, I don't think you even understand what your talking about.
4 wheel drives vs 2 wheel drives (2axle powered vs1 axle powered) even if you have the same weight and same engine, the 2 axle drive will always be faster in acceleration because with the 1 axle drive system the second trailing axle acts as resistance.
Second, power distribution for 4 wheel drive divides the torque between the axles so there is less loss in traction between wheel and track so the driver can throttle up faster while the 2 wheel drive system needs to be more careful or it starts a wheel spin.
Again simple high school science or in this basic automobile knowledge.
The push/pull locomotive simply can not compete against an EMU in terms of acceleration/deceleration rate.

Here is another interesting comment I found on Wiki that may explain the reason why intervals are longer for Euro star.



You are completely WRONG ...


If for you a 200m long TGV trainset with 8 motored axles and 18 non-powered axles is a "push-pull/locomotive" and a ICE3 with the same 200m ,100tonnes more and 16 +16 powered/unpowered axles is an EM ... who AM I to say no to blind people ???


Your comparison between 2 vs 4 wheel drives is absurd.


Comparing a 200hp articulated truck (this would be the TGV) with let's say a pair of articulated 4-wheel drive 100hp Jeeps connected toguether ...


... Do you seriously believe that the tiny motors on the later would be more capable of acelerating the veicle than the BIG motors on the 1st ???

Railway Reality proves otherwise ... a similarly rated (in terms of top speed) SMALL motor will be much more difficult to get to higher speeds than a bigger motor ...and remember ... you are not comparing any similarly powered veichles locomotive hauled with any 100% powered EMU's

You are comparing a 8800KW EMU (namely the TGV 1100KW per motored axle) with similarly powered EMU's of 8000KW (ICE3 500KW per motored axle) and a 8540KW EMU (N70 305KW per motored axle) ....


... and ain't railways all about minimizing atrition ??? To compare any train with simple 2 vs. 1 wheel drives would be a grave error ...


And remember ... NEVER ever compare the Eurostar performance with that of a standard TGV set ....
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Old January 30th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taikoo.city View Post
Because of your track record I can't say I'm on either your or his side. This is simply a TGV fanboy vs Shinkansen fanboy argument in which both of you seem to have some valid points but they are simply opposite perspectives/opinions of the same issue. It's like arguing about the truth of Christian faith amongst different denominations in which some theories or opinions actually contradict with each other, so whichever side is right, the other side must be wrong. All I have to say is that it is impossible to imagine an engine/motor from a different carriage to drive the axles on a different carriage, unless it is actually a generator which provides electricity for the motors of the axles on that other carriage.
Who's a TGV fanboy here ???


This is simply a case of pure high school phisics (in his words) ... the bigger the engine vs. the more axles power as you can are two different scales on their own chart ... you just need to find a sweetspot between both of them and see where you get the best results ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
You'll have to clarify that one since my analogy is about cars with a drive shaft. I am just saying that if their are two sets of identical trainsets in terms of weight, overall power output, etc and the only difference being one being EMU and the other being Push pull then the EMU will alwas have faster acceleration/deceleration rate.(In fact even if theEMU is slightly heavier and less powerful there is a very good chance that the EMU will be faster in terms of acceleration/deceleration rate)

As for EMU vs pushpull locomotives or any other comparitive analysis for that matter they'll always have both pros and cons.
For example, EMUs are more sophisticated in design with more parts so maitenace takes more time and are costly.
Locomotives are less costly per train set than EMUs for the same reason.
Locomotive will achive faster top speed than EMU with same overall power outage due to motor resistance.
Locomotives have more flexibility and can be substituted for small locomotives where the gradients of the route become steeper and more power is needed. Also, different types of passenger cars (such as reclining-seats, compartment cars, couchettes, sleepers, restaurant cars, buffet cars etc.) can be easily added to or removed from a locomotive hauled train. However, it is not so easy for a multiple unit since individual cars can be attached or detached only in a maintenance facility. This also allows a loco - hauled train to be flexible in terms of number of cars. Cars can be removed or added one by one, but in multiple units two or more units have to be coupled. This is not so flexible.
Obsolescence cycles - Separating the motive power from the payload-carrying cars means that either can be replaced when obsolete without affecting the other.

You just need to know what are the advantages and disadvatages.
that's the basic point in wich your theories fail to the ground ... you are not talking about "two sets of identical trainsets in terms of weight, overall power output, etc and the only difference being one being EMU and the other being Push pull then the EMU will alwas have faster acceleration/deceleration rate" ... you are talking about one EMU with 1/3rd high powered axles (1100KW) , one EMU with 1/2 small powered axles (500KW) with MORE axles total and another EMU with small powered axles (305KW)

Or you have the small motors revving upp to greater rpm or you need a greater relation in the transmission ... so in either case you get a tiny motor trying its hardest to do the same task than a bigger motor is handling more easily in the other train ... it's all about torque motor-axle and nothing about atrition wheel-rail here.

How do you even start to explain why in reality the TGV has better acceleration than the ICE3 ???
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old January 30th, 2009, 10:15 PM   #400
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A Couple of UK Airport/Rail Connection pics .

The Gatwick Express (London Victoria Station to Gatwick Airport)

image hosted on flickr


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The Heathrow Express (London Paddington to Heathrow Airport)

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Manchester Airport to Manchester Piccadilly Station

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The New Glasgow Airport Rail Connection due for completion in 2010

http://flyglasgow.net/airportexpansion.html



New Edinburgh Airport Rail Connection due for Completion in 2011

http://www.edinburgharchitecture.co...._rail_link.htm



A couple of light rail links to UK Airports -

Birmingham International Airport (UK) has a light rail link between the Airport and the nearby rail station.

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The City of London Airport near Canary Wharf is now conected to Central London via the Docklands Light Railway.

image hosted on flickr


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A couple of other UK Airport Links

Newcastle Airport Metro Service connects with the Cities Central Station

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image hosted on flickr


Couple of pics of Stansted Express

Liverpool Street Station (London) to Stansted Airport (Essex) -

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Birmingham New Street Station to Stansted Airport Services -

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Luton Airport Parkway Station

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Train from Luton Parkway through central London terminating at London Bridge Station

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Southampton Airport Parkway Station connecting with mainline trains between Southampton and London Waterloo Station.

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image hosted on flickr

Last edited by Jaeger; February 3rd, 2009 at 08:08 PM.
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