daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 27th, 2009, 11:41 AM   #521
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by taikoo.city View Post
It depends on how you define HSR technology: the vehicles or the tracks, or both. You may be an EXPERT (and strong defender) on TGV technology ...
Completely offtopic but "TGV Technology" and "Shinkansen Technology" are one and the same ... railway technology.

Tis is a 100% wrong statement ... since both the LGV Sud Est route and the TGV sud est trainsets were actually the FIRST "true" HSR/HST ... one must remember that acording to current standards the HSR/HST begin at "above" 250km/h.

the first japanese trains above the 210/220 km/h of the original series 0 100 and 200 were the "uprated" later series 200 in 1983(?) and their speed limit was only 240km/h .

And that's a FACT and not a simple statement ... and this coming from a guy that actually dislikes the french HSR/HST concept in almost it's entire lenght.

Bein called a TGV defender to me is almost as if you had walked and p++++ over my grave.

Just consider this ... except for the Italian PEndolinos (used to overspeed to 270km/h or even more in the directissima prior to automatic control systems forced a 250km/h speed limit there) and the Sud Est TGV's none of the other high speed trains was able to go over 220km/h until the 80's ... so when talking about technological aspects and other operational qualities the 60's-80's shinkansen sould be put on par with the IC125/IC225 (and others such as the german DB103+ 200km/h intercity trains)


Quote:
having been working on this field for decades but you shouldn't be in the position of criticizing and attacking Shinkansen technology if you know nothing, or only a tiny fraction, of that technology and service philosophy.
Noone has ever atacked Shinkansen technology in any way ... and it's technology is very visible to allow anyone a good look at it ... its tremendously passenger-served-the-best-way-we-can oriented indeed.

Quote:
TGV is simply NOT for Britain because it's aimed for long-distance travel (and an alternative to flying) instead of a more metro-style service (and congestion relief) like the Shinkansen's been running since the late 60s.
TGV is a group of trainsets ... one of those trainsets runs daily on britihs tracks ... namely Eurostar in HS1.

Quote:
Britain is also more similar to Japan than any other European countries being a small island with relatively higher population density than the continent. Britain would also need more tunnels for HSR than the continent due to NIMBYs and developed areas along some of the main lines. You can call me Anti-TGV if you like but I'm not a fanboy or fangirl of ANY particular technology, and would prefer British technology if it managed to be successfully developed back in the APT era. It's a pity they eventually scrapped the whole project and sold everything to Italy (and not Hitachi).
On the contrary ... britains is ANYTHING BUT similar to japan in terms of railways ... especially if one talks about HSR and the wilingness to make compromisses to achieve any goals.

If the UK was in any way similar to japan the hole country would be nowadays littered with 200mph capable 4 track electrified main lines stretching from Thurso to Penzance ... or dare I say it ...


From Kirkwall to Lands End ???

Could england ever consider a 17km long railway crossing to serve the small northern islands ??? or even some extended highland railway to Uig (isle of Sky) or any other "exotic" railway ???


considering that the "basic" reopening of old "Beeched" routes could easily solve 1/2 (half) the current british mainline congestions:

Airdrie-Bathgate to allow direct Glasgow-Edimburg services ... 125mph electric trainsets would kill the 60km gap in 20 minutes or even less

Widness-Timberley to allow direct Liverpool-Manchester coped with the reopening of the Hollingworth-Penistone-Sheffield could create a functioning East-West HSR

The GCML is a complete "prelaid" and "prepaid" base for a "true" HSR at ultra high speeds ... it was even projected originally as a continental loading gauge route so it is even easy to recover some old bridges and infraestructure.

Other such "easy to steal again" bargains exist everywhere in the island ... so nothing is comparable to the "let's brake it and pay every yen with a smile on our faces" of the Japanese way.


Thus the basic diference between japan and the UK is easily explain on one or two words ... "wilingness" and "preseverance".

And I bet that I misspelled both.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 27th, 2009, 01:00 PM   #522
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Completely offtopic but "TGV Technology" and "Shinkansen Technology" are one and the same ... railway technology.
Actually they point to completely two different things.
TGV technology basically points to the trainset while Shinkansen refers to the overall package of trainset, signaling system and overall track design.
JR made a real fuss and even published a message to the press not to call it Shinkansen when the media was covered the opening of "Taiwan Shinkansen" since it is actually a mixture of European(signaling system), Korean(track construction) and Japanese(trainset) technology.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2009, 02:48 AM   #523
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

that's a completely wron assessment of the situation here ...



"TGV" originally meant the "turbine a gran vitesse" test train and was subsequently reinvented as "train a gran vitesse" to designate the comercial service operated by SNCF ... people call the LGV (lignes a grand vitesse) as "tgv lines"

"Shinkansen" suffered the exact oposite problem ... it only meant "new trunk railway" but people started to use it to designat ethe trainsets.


So both are the same ... "media marketing names" to designate simply the use of high speed trains on those services. (nevermind the technical mambojumbo and propaganda)

What happened to JR about taiwan hapens everiwhere in europe when people start refering to HSR (generically) as "TGV".



For example here in neighbluring spain the Lisboa-Madrid HSR is refered to as "linea de Ave hacia portugal" ... we usually refer to it as "linha de TGV para espanha".

Actually if we were to call it in portuguese it would be a "CAV - comboio de alta velocidade" or something like that.

British on the other hand have a problem ... HST naming already taken.

Back on the "technology" side of things ... the use of any privately owned company technology on the infraestructure doesn't necessarily mean that it's that country system's technology.

Japanese (due to tthe terrain) usually build everything on bridge/viaduct/tunnel ... spanish/french/german usually (like us) build almost everything in cuttings/banks with a pressed gravell trackbed (also due to the terrain being faborable to that solution) ... but nothing stops one or another from using exactly the same solutions.

A quick example ... THIS:



In the british countryside environment is much cheaper than THIS:



... or maiby not.

Anyway ... this is the usual intermediate station in the JR system:




Anyone care to compare with the british platforms ???

offtopic: a great way to easily improve capacity in NR would be to re.create the 4 track stations everywhere that they rigged the passing tracks onto stopping double tracks (they made an "eye" shaped double track out of a 4 track alignement ... thus eleminasting th epassing places there).

Other places could be treated like reading (adding stoping tracks near the fast ones).

And so much more can be made to improve the capacity handling on NR trackage that we could be here for years talking about it.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 28th, 2009, 02:01 PM   #524
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
that's a completely wron assessment of the situation here ...



"TGV" originally meant the "turbine a gran vitesse" test train and was subsequently reinvented as "train a gran vitesse" to designate the comercial service operated by SNCF ... people call the LGV (lignes a grand vitesse) as "tgv lines"

"Shinkansen" suffered the exact oposite problem ... it only meant "new trunk railway" but people started to use it to designat ethe trainsets.


So both are the same ... "media marketing names" to designate simply the use of high speed trains on those services. (nevermind the technical mambojumbo and propaganda)
I don't know why you constantly shoot yourself in the foot.

Shinkansen when first announced in the 50's was a pretty daring plan with three criteria on Safety, Speed and Comfort.
Each part was approached seperately with individual tangible goals and solutions.
Safety was achieved by introducing a completely new in-car signaling and control system, Automatic Train Control(ATC). (This was the first in Japan)
Speed(top speed and accerleration rate) was achieved through a newly designed trainset.
Comfort was achieved through route design making the route as straight as possible placing minimum radius of curves at 2,500M and utilizing the longest rails available at that time.

Presently JR still maintains that the three criteria must be achieved with mesureable benchmarks and systems(D-ATC) to be called a Shinkansen.

So it's not just a media marketing name.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 09:32 AM   #525
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
I don't know why you constantly shoot yourself in the foot
do you even care to read what you quote ??? I'm certainly not the one rampaging with a loaded shotgun ...


Quote:
Shinkansen when first announced in the 50's was a pretty daring plan with three criteria on Safety, Speed and Comfort.
Each part was approached seperately with individual tangible goals and solutions.
And what does that contradict on my previous statements ???

All major HSR projects share the same basic features ... "lets make it a GREAT jump ahead this time" ... due to the pre-existing infraestructure that meant that Japan didi it in the 60's and most europeans did it only in the 80's or 90's ... nothing more and nothing less than that.


Completely offtopic (this is the british thread): the "early days" shinkansen by current standards would be considered as "upgraded to HSR standards" due to it being a 210km/h route back then and not a "250km/h and over HSR" (*) ... learn to live with it.
stratospherically offtopic: has anyone ever badmouthed the japanese way of doing things ??? usually they are pretty eficient in everything.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 11:45 AM   #526
taikoo.city
ぴったん,ラーラーもじぴったん~~
 
taikoo.city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: British Crown Colony of Hong Kong
Posts: 182
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Completely offtopic (this is the british thread): the "early days" shinkansen by current standards would be considered as "upgraded to HSR standards" due to it being a 210km/h route back then and not a "250km/h and over HSR" (*) ... learn to live with it.
stratospherically offtopic: has anyone ever badmouthed the japanese way of doing things ??? usually they are pretty eficient in everything.
Wow! Putting a non-global definition (ie. arbitrarily defined by the Europeans) upon the renowned Shinkansen system you sure are pissing the Japanese off.

Your TGV fanboyism is what makes this thread off topic, live with it and STHU! No matter how "good" yoru TGV system is it's simply NOT for Britain, at least not for DOMESTIC travel. See what Dft chose for Intercity Express programme: An EMU with acceleration/deceleration compatible (if not higher) than commuter trains. Frequent stops with minimal sacrifice in journey time is gonna be the norm.

Advertise your TGV-ism elsewhere please, probably the French section would be a PERFECT place for your self satisfaction...
__________________
Sorry for being so political. If you think my comments are over the top, please leave me a kind reminder, thank you very much!

> Hong Kong is still part of the United Kingdom!! Please help BN(O)s to get what they deserve~~

> MTR North Island Line Discussion Thread
taikoo.city no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 01:46 PM   #527
Republica
BUND
 
Republica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,036
Likes (Received): 3

IEP is 0.75 m/s/s acceleration. Is that fast?

And it comes in two lengths, the 260m long standards intercity train and the 130m commuter train.
__________________
Rant
Republica no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 02:47 PM   #528
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,557

I thought IEP is for shorter intercity journeys (hence the commuter train). Then again, London-Scotland trains, despite not stopping between London and either Warrington or York (OK, only some ECML trains do that), do stop rather frequently after that.

Warrington-Wigan-Preston-Lancaster-Oxenholme/Penrith-Carlisle is 6 stops in 100 miles, clustered in the southern half of that.
York-Northallerton-Darlington-Durham-Newcastle-Morpeth-Alnwick-Berwick-Dunbar-Edinburgh is likewise rather a lot of stops.

A complete, single, HSL to Scotland would have a service pattern, on the core route like:
London-Birmingham International-Stoke-Manchester Airport-Manchester
London-Birmingham International-Manchester Airport-Manchester-Leeds
London-Stoke-Manchester-Leeds-York-Darlington-Newcastle
London-Manchester-Leeds-York-Darlington-Newcastle-Edinburgh-Glasgow

As you can see, while there are 100 mile gaps on all services (some 150 or even 200 miles) the case is that there are quite a few 10, 20, 30 mile gaps on there as well.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 08:42 PM   #529
amirtaheri
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 302
Likes (Received): 1

The Class 395 was for commuter high speed rail on High Speed 1. I believe the IEP project was to replace the Intercity 125 and 225.
amirtaheri no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #530
Republica
BUND
 
Republica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,036
Likes (Received): 3

yeah IEP is for both commuter and long distance intercity.

So i presume 0.75 acceleration is quite speedy.
__________________
Rant
Republica no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2009, 10:05 PM   #531
taikoo.city
ぴったん,ラーラーもじぴったん~~
 
taikoo.city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: British Crown Colony of Hong Kong
Posts: 182
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republica View Post
IEP is 0.75 m/s/s acceleration. Is that fast?

And it comes in two lengths, the 260m long standards intercity train and the 130m commuter train.
Or 2.7 km/h/s, slightly higher than that of a N700.
__________________
Sorry for being so political. If you think my comments are over the top, please leave me a kind reminder, thank you very much!

> Hong Kong is still part of the United Kingdom!! Please help BN(O)s to get what they deserve~~

> MTR North Island Line Discussion Thread
taikoo.city no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 02:27 AM   #532
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Ideally acceleration should be in the 1,2 ms2 range ... but that is well beyond the reach of the extra-long HST transmission ratios.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 03:12 AM   #533
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by taikoo.city View Post
Wow! Putting a non-global definition (ie. arbitrarily defined by the Europeans) upon the renowned Shinkansen system you sure are pissing the Japanese off.

Your TGV fanboyism is what makes this thread off topic, live with it and STHU! No matter how "good" yoru TGV system is it's simply NOT for Britain, at least not for DOMESTIC travel. See what Dft chose for Intercity Express programme: An EMU with acceleration/deceleration compatible (if not higher) than commuter trains. Frequent stops with minimal sacrifice in journey time is gonna be the norm.

Advertise your TGV-ism elsewhere please, probably the French section would be a PERFECT place for your self satisfaction...
You STFU ...


You seem to have NO KNOWLEDGE whatsoever about the so called" your TGV system" (does Your even belong in that name?).


In my country we don't even use the french TGV system (be it either the trainsets or the infraestructure) ...

... so this comment of yours is completely wrong:
Quote:
Your TGV fanboyism is what makes this thread off topic, live with it and STHU!
Then again ... in the UK they use it a lot ... since it is basically the same service concept that is used in NEXP/GW/CrossCountry/Virgin/MML/ and other services ... never mind the TGV-Eurostar trainsets and the HS1(wich is a french stiled LGV)

... so this comment of yours is completely wrong:
Quote:
No matter how "good" yoru TGV system is it's simply NOT for Britain, at least not for DOMESTIC travel.

Quote:
See what Dft chose for Intercity Express programme: An EMU with acceleration/deceleration compatible (if not higher) than commuter trains. Frequent stops with minimal sacrifice in journey time is gonna be the norm.
European comuters can reach as high as 1 m/s2 ... 0,75 m/s2 is slow as hell by any non HSR standards here.

... here goes your theory to the dust.

And you (and others) are still starting with the wrong foot when trying to badmouth in my general direction.

A shinkansen stiled network (namelly a closed HSR network) is USELESS in the european UIC GAUGE vast mileage ... a simpler and much smaller trunk network (wich actually is what the LGV's are) is all that is needed.

So your statement is 100% wrong indeed ... and since we are
/were discussing about HS2 and other such europeish nonsense ... all the hardware could be from Hitashi and it wouldn't be a TGV-ish vs. Shinkansen-ish battle ...

If you can't read this statement porperly I would gladly explain it to you:
Quote:
stratospherically offtopic: has anyone ever badmouthed the japanese way of doing things ??? usually they are pretty eficient in everything.
Last time I read the topic it was:

Quote:
Thread: British Railways - Pics, Info, News, Views
Next time someone ofends me by calling me a tgv fanboy I will simply start to over use the "report post" button.

Definitelly I'm not being the fanboy over here.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 03:15 AM   #534
Mostly Lurking
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,823
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
You STFU ...

Next time someone ofends me by calling me a tgv fanboy I will simply start to over use the "report post" button.

Definitelly I'm not being the fanboy over here.
Just do it if you are going to do it before people start using it en-masse against you for continually dragging the thread off topic and filling it with inaccuracies.
Mostly Lurking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 03:53 AM   #535
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
European comuters can reach as high as 1 m/s2 ... 0,75 m/s2 is slow as hell by any non HSR standards here.

... here goes your theory to the dust.
I recall reading in another thread that the ICE3 acceleration rate from stand still was 0.6Km/h/s meaning it 0.16m/s/s.
I believe TGVs are slower then that so in terms of HSR, 0.75m/s/s is quite fast.

Speed is based on revolution of motor*gear rate. Trade off is that to obtain larger torque(acceleration rate), top speed becomes limited and vis versa. Since commuter trains do not require top speed of 200Km/h the gears rate can be focused on achive higher acceleration rate.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.

Last edited by Tri-ring; May 13th, 2009 at 06:52 AM.
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 08:18 AM   #536
G5man
High Speed Rail fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 337
Likes (Received): 37

I read that only half of the wheels on the ICE3 are powered and half are un-powered unlike a shinkansen where only two sets are un-powered for a 16 car set. That is probably what produces such a slow acceleration rate, less wheels powered meaning more that get to take on the load.
G5man no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 08:50 AM   #537
taikoo.city
ぴったん,ラーラーもじぴったん~~
 
taikoo.city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: British Crown Colony of Hong Kong
Posts: 182
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Lurking View Post
Just do it if you are going to do it before people start using it en-masse against you for continually dragging the thread off topic and filling it with inaccuracies.
I agree. I don't care what other countries are but everything I'm discussing on regarding HSR is ALL about which system would be better for BRITAIN. So I'm not the one who's off-topic and he has no right nor reason to "report" me (aka filing a complaint against me) whatsoever...
__________________
Sorry for being so political. If you think my comments are over the top, please leave me a kind reminder, thank you very much!

> Hong Kong is still part of the United Kingdom!! Please help BN(O)s to get what they deserve~~

> MTR North Island Line Discussion Thread
taikoo.city no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 10:11 AM   #538
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by taikoo.city View Post
I agree. I don't care what other countries are but everything I'm discussing on regarding HSR is ALL about which system would be better for BRITAIN. So I'm not the one who's off-topic and he has no right nor reason to "report" me (aka filing a complaint against me) whatsoever...
Into which part of "no right to report" does this fall into ???


Quote:
Your TGV fanboyism is what makes this thread off topic, live with it and STHU! No matter how "good" yoru TGV system is it's simply NOT...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
I recall reading in another thread that the ICE3 acceleration rate from stand still was 0.6Km/h/s meaning it 0.16m/s/s.
I believe TGVs are slower then that so in terms of HSR, 0.75m/s/s is quite fast.

Speed is based on revolution of motor*gear rate. Trade off is that to obtain larger torque(acceleration rate), top speed becomes limited and vis versa. Since commuter trains do not require top speed of 200Km/h the gears rate can be focused on achive higher acceleration rate.
That's preciselly the point ... the higher the speed then worse the resulting acceleration ... but it's nonetheless better to have a good HSR train with sufferable acceleration (sufferable as in not near as sluggish as a ETR500) AND a good top speed ... than a good acceleration and a lower top speed.

Javelins would be good as any other existing british intercity trains presently operatin on BR.

But to claim "that" as good over anything else for HSR is being a little blindfolded ...

And that brings us to the "old" discussions of bigger and powerfull motors versus smaller motors ... remember the TGV(less motored axles but bigger motors) vs. shinkansen (more motored axles but smaller motors) discussion ??

Comparatively the Pendolino "usual" 0,35m/s2 acceleration doesn't seem that sluggist (that being from 0-200km/h ... 0-100km/h accel. is 0,5m/s2)... and we are used to call them exactly that over here (portugal) ... sluggish.

Quote:
the ICE3 acceleration rate from stand still was 0.6Km/h/s meaning it 0.16m/s/s.
I believe TGVs are slower then that so in terms of HSR, 0.75m/s/s is quite fast.
Since the french don't give away their numbers we must reverse engineer them ... and if we only consider accelerations into the 0-200km/h range we would be indeed making a huge mistake.

for instance the "usual" numbers defined TGV acceleration from 300-330km/h is 0,2m/s2 and from 300-360km/h is only 0,1m/s2 (let us believe in the internet propaganda) ... and that preciselly is due to the extra long transmissions of any HSR train due to reach 300km/h or more.


sidenotice: I didn't said that the performance of the s395 was bad ... it's good enough for a train of that tipe ... just that it would be a sluggish comuter (usuall comuter accelerations are much higher)

sidenote2: just noticed that the british s390 is even more sluggish(0,4m/s2) than our own pendolino.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 03:58 PM   #539
33Hz
Registered User
 
33Hz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
Likes (Received): 47

This site used to be regular reading, but I gave it a miss for 2 months thanks to sotavento's [email protected] in almost every interesting thread. I come back and you are still writing utter off-topic drivel in this same thread. Just take yourself and your bl00dy annoying smilies away and stop wrecking the usefulness of this site!

I mean...

Quote:
multiple units stretched to 200mph speeds ARE NOT inovative in anything other than their nose cone design
...just shows the true depth of your knowledge, "Mr Railway Engineer".
33Hz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2009, 07:20 PM   #540
Republica
BUND
 
Republica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,036
Likes (Received): 3

Yeah sotavento, can you please leave. You talk rubbish in the most bizarre style and end up arguing with whoever comes along.

Doesnt it cross you mind it might be your fault that that happens and not the other person?
__________________
Rant
Republica no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
rail, railways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium