daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 27th, 2010, 06:39 PM   #761
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Hard to say, its about twice the distance. Yet the marginal cost of extending is of course lower than stopping electrification completely after this batch and then starting up again a few years later. I can only hope that Network Rail's rolling electrification plan is authorised, it makes the most sense. However it is more likely that Aberdeen will see sparks, as it is already an aspiration of the Scottish Executive.

In fairness to the IEP programme, further electrification was not on the cards at its inception.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 27th, 2010, 09:26 PM   #762
Maarten Otto
Registered User
 
Maarten Otto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Almere (Greater Amsterdam)
Posts: 464
Likes (Received): 24

I think DafT is already looking for alternatives to the Super Express Train. Why else would Eastcoast introduce an "Intercity Eastcoast Pendoline" (IEP) from Edinburgh to Kings Cross and back from next year?

Press release by Eastcoast:

Quote:

EAST COAST ASKED TO COMMISSION NEW 11 CAR PENDOLINO TRAIN

Directly Operated Railways Limited, the company established by the Government in 2009 to manage Train Operating Companies that come back to the public sector, today announced that it is in discussion with industry parties concerning the possibility of commissioning a new 11-car Pendolino train on the East Coast Main Line.

Elaine Holt, Chairman and Chief Executive of Directly Operated Railways, and Chairman of East Coast, said:

“I’m very pleased that East Coast has been asked to commission the new Pendolino on the East Coast Main Line. Whilst a final decision has not yet been made, if it goes ahead, the train would add extra capacity to our fleet – and we’re sure our customers would appreciate the comfort and facilities that the new Pendolino has to offer.

“We’re currently talking with the manufacturers Alstom, and other key industry partners to understand the challenges and opportunities involved in the commissioning and certification of the Pendolino on East Coast.”

Under the plan, East Coast Main Line Company Limited (East Coast), the publicly-owned company which operates Anglo-Scottish services on Britain’s premier long-distance rail route, would take delivery of the new train in July next year. East Coast would operate the Pendolino in daily passenger service, principally between London and Edinburgh, for a period currently estimated to be nine months.

The new 11-car Pendolino Class 390 – which is being built by Alstom at its facility in Savigliano, Italy – forms part of an order for four such train-sets. Alstom started work on the new order in early 2009. The units will be very similar to the 52 Pendolino Class 390s, each of 9 cars, currently in service on the West Coast Main Line.

These train-sets were built by Alstom between 2001 and 2004 and are capable of speeds of up to 140 miles per hour*.

The 11-cars of the new Pendolino will be only slightly longer than trains in the existing East Coast fleet, enabling all current station stops to be utilised by the train without the use of Selective Door Operation.

Whilst the new 11-car Pendolino is being commissioned with East Coast, it would be fully integrated into the East Coast fleet and timetable – and would be maintained by the Alstom train care centre at Polmadie, in Glasgow.

ENDS

*Speeds are limited to 125 miles per hour on both the East and West Coast Main Lines, due to infrastructure constraints.

Alstom Transport UK Limited press office: Helen Connolly, 01788 545623
Picture of possible livery:
http://alternativerailways.fotopic.net/p66489048.html
Maarten Otto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #763
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Its peculiar because it seems to only be for 9 months, after which what? I've tried to find out since this information came out but to no avail. I agree that the most obvious reason for this must be verifying what a pendo could do over the route. On paper it is more powerful, even with its heavy tilt mechanism, yet it won't be able to use the tilt (one would assume) and still be limited to 125mph. Perhaps the Pendo's in-cab could be programmed to allow it to use the limited 5th aspect in the Peterborough region to allow 140mph, but I don't really see how or whether anyone would bother commissioning that for a one-off.

On the other hand it could purely be for capacity reasons, as the WCML is predicted to have a surplus of seats with the new pendos, and the ECML a deficit.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2010, 12:19 PM   #764
33Hz
Registered User
 
33Hz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
Likes (Received): 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
This particular claim has since been rubbished. Roger Ford has consistently questioned the figures provided by the DfT, as in the original specs for 30-40% powered axles the superior acceleration due to tractive effort runs out at about 30km/h, barely 10 seconds into the journey, with the installed power specified. As it turned out Hitachi's design has 50% powered axles because they saw that the DfT's spec could not actually guarantee required adhesion in adverse weather conditions to maintain the timetable, but even this is not going to be enough to support a claim of superior performance over an HST. The IEP is not specified to be a 400m Shinkansen type with 100% motored axles and 18kW of power but a 260m half-motored-axle with 2kW of power on windy rainy hilly twisty victorian railways. The superior power output of an HST will allow it to outperform the bi-mode IEP sigificantly over these sections.

Unfortunately Roger Ford made a misunderstanding in his interpretation of the spec and everybody else has just followed him like braying sheep

The key here is that the bi-mode (as well as the pure diesel) are hybrid vehicles. That means that while the engine may only be 2MW, there is also a battery pack that can supply another 2MW to the power bus for a limited time.

The complaint has been that the train won't start on steep hills, yet a look at the data sheet shows the exact same 400kN starting effort as the electric and diesel versions. That's because it is drawing power from the battery to fully supply all powered axles for a few minutes.

When the train is running on 125mph sections, it will be under the wires and hence able to draw 4MW all the time. When it is working autonomously the sustained peak power is 2MW (i.e. after the batteries have depleted), but that is fine as the remaining non-wired tracks in Scotland and the West Country will be limited to 100mph or less, with the hills "smoothed out" by the charging and discharging of the batteries. In that respect, the last government's electrification programme fitted perfectly with the ability of the bi-mode (joined up thinking, in this country?!?)

I think what Hitachi designed was a nice piece of kit and it is a pity that it was nobbled by the campaign of a journalist who didn't get this new-fangled battery stuff.



p.s. I know questioning Roger Ford is akin to blasphemy around here, but on this occasion I really think he dropped the ball. Someone should've bought the man a Prius...

Last edited by 33Hz; August 29th, 2010 at 12:25 PM.
33Hz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #765
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

My understanding was that the battery was only to provide power during a failure so that the train can clear a section at 15mph instead of having to be towed, and that the DfT originally specified a small auxiliary diesel generator that Hitachi decided to replace with a battery. I've read all the documentation I can find and have seen no mention of using the battery to provide a further 2MW, I would be interested to know where this information is.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2010, 03:26 PM   #766
33Hz
Registered User
 
33Hz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
Likes (Received): 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
My understanding was that the battery was only to provide power during a failure so that the train can clear a section at 15mph instead of having to be towed
Absolutely not - and to be honest this is the sort of misunderstanding that is prevalent.


You should have a look at this presentation, specifically slides 4-3 to 4-6.

Quote:
Route Capacity - Better acceleration by battery power assist
33Hz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2010, 11:54 AM   #767
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Interesting, although I'm still a bit miffed at the 2MW claim. The slides state that it'll start off with battery power, but at low speeds 2MW would not be required to achieve maximum tractive effort. Do you know of any documents that that specify the battery can output 2MW?

Regardless of if you don't I'm minded to raise this in an email to Roger Ford as he has not mentioned much of it and I'm sure he'd be happy make a response considering how much time he's put into the debate already. I'm certainly miffed.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2010, 04:01 PM   #768
TedStriker
Over Macho Grande
 
TedStriker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,517
Likes (Received): 385

A story in yesterday's FT confirms that Bombardier has already begun looking into how the Traxx locomotive design could be made to fit within the British loading gauge. See: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0282e9d4-b...44feabdc0.html.

Apparently the D.o.T. is already discussing the idea of simply attaching new electric locos to rakes of Mark III coaches for GWML services, perhaps leaving at one end an HST power car.
TedStriker está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2010, 11:36 PM   #769
33Hz
Registered User
 
33Hz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
Likes (Received): 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Interesting, although I'm still a bit miffed at the 2MW claim. The slides state that it'll start off with battery power, but at low speeds 2MW would not be required to achieve maximum tractive effort. Do you know of any documents that that specify the battery can output 2MW

I can't see anything specific at the moment but we can derive it. This article states that Hayabusa had 48 Li ion battery modules of 1 kWh and weighing 20kg each. So that's almost a tonne of batteries for 48 kWh capacity.

That's actually not that high for Li ion energy density - pointing to the use of a chemistry called LiFePO4 or perhaps another that trades energy density for charge/discharge rate and life cycles. That makes sense because obviously you want a large number of cycles in an application like this.

Now this type of chemistry and other similar ones can support charge/discharge rates of up to 50C, or 50x the capacity, meaning 48kW x 50 or 2.4MW is possible. Also, some types have have a power density of up to 4kW per kg, so a tonne of batteries could output 4MW. So two different routes lead to that order of magnitude of power.

I'm not exactly sure which supplier Hitachi used, but 2MW is definitely possible for short periods.
33Hz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2010, 02:05 PM   #770
Fatfield
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 488
Likes (Received): 93

County Durham train plant bid put to government


The new trains could be in operation by 2014

A team of business leaders and politicians are set to put the case for creating train-building jobs in County Durham to the government later.

They will have a meeting with Transport Secretary Phillip Hammond in London about locating a rail assembly plant in Newton Aycliffe.

Hitachi was provisionally awarded a £7.5bn contract to build carriages and must now choose a location.

The estimated boost from the project would be £660m over 20 years.

The group will deliver a report setting out the economic impact on the county and region.

The project is dependant on Hitachi being granted the Intercity Express Programme Contract in the government's Comprehensive Spending Review in October.

'Massive impact'

The company has indicated Newton Aycliffe is its favoured site.

Leader of Labour-led Durham County Council, Simon Henig, said: "This could be really very important to the future of County Durham and the North East particularly at a time when the public sector is going to be under very severe pressure in terms of reducing resources over the next few years.

"Here we have an opportunity working with a major private sector company to bring in a very large investment, a very large number of jobs to County Durham and the North East.

"Those opportunities don't come about very often and this is why we are going to try to persuade the government to give it the go-ahead which would have a massive impact within the county and regionally."

Up to 200 people would be involved in the construction of the new plant, with a further 800 involved in building the trains.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11379709
Fatfield no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #771
Dubbeldekker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8
Likes (Received): 0

"" The British newspapers have dubbed it "Axe Wednesday," the day that Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne finally announced deep cuts to public finances. ""

So let's see what it's gonna be with the IEP ...

though I don't like those 'donkey engine' alternatives ...
Dubbeldekker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #772
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,092
Likes (Received): 291

__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London

Last edited by poshbakerloo; October 20th, 2010 at 10:50 PM.
poshbakerloo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #773
Dubbeldekker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8
Likes (Received): 0

ehhmmmm , like this one better ....

Dubbeldekker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #774
Dubbeldekker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8
Likes (Received): 0

ehhmmmm , like this one better ....



Picture of the Day 23 August 2007

The first driving car of new Class 395 Hitachi 'Bullet' Trains was offloaded at Southampton Docks on 23 August 2007. The vehicle is seen in the rail yard after being lifted off a road vehicle frame used for transport.
Colin J. Marsden
Dubbeldekker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2010, 07:31 AM   #775
Jay
Registered User
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California to Barcelona
Posts: 4,055
Likes (Received): 1864

woah they cancelled the javelin 395 trains? Bummer
Jay no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2010, 10:01 AM   #776
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
woah they cancelled the javelin 395 trains? Bummer
? All of the class 395s have been built and are in service - all 29 of them.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2010, 09:20 AM   #777
Fatfield
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 488
Likes (Received): 93

Quote:
25 November 2010 Last updated at 07:00

Railways to get £8bn investment

By Richard Scott
Transport correspondent, BBC News

The government has announced plans for £8bn of investment in Great Britain's railways.

It is buying about 2,000 new carriages to tackle overcrowding, electrifying some lines and pressing ahead with the Thameslink programme.

But plans to modernise the London-Swansea line are still on hold and it will be the end of the decade before the investment is complete.

Passengers also face rises in ticket prices to help pay for the investments.

New carriages
The government had put many rail investment schemes on hold while it decided which it could afford in the face of budget cuts. Now we know that more than 2,000 new carriages are being bought, with 1,850 of them being used to provide extra capacity.

Those carriages will not arrive instantly though - they won't finish coming into service until 2019.

Some 400 of them are for Crossrail (the new line being built east-west across London), 800 for Thameslink (the north-south link across London) and 650 will be given to different franchises around the country.

Those 650 carriages will be used to serve commuters travelling into the big cities.

But the government cannot say precisely which franchises will get what.


Although the new carriages will be given to the franchises, and represent good news for passengers - the train companies will want extra money from the government to run them.

So ministers will now negotiate with franchises to get the best deal they can - and that will determine in part where the carriages go.

Those carriages will increase capacity on the network by 17%, enabling an extra 185,000 passengers to be carried at any one time.

Thameslink green light
The Thameslink project is also going to go ahead in full. This will eventually double capacity on the route from Brighton to Bedford, allowing up to 24 trains an hour.

Work on the scheme is already underway, but there had been question marks over whether the rest of the stages would go ahead.

It won't be completed though until 2018 - two years later than planned. That delay means the engineering work is easier, and cuts costs.

There is also news that lines in the north west - from Manchester to Liverpool and Manchester to Blackpool - are going to be electrified.

Electric trains have an operating cost roughly half that of their diesel equivalents. They are also more reliable and can fit more passengers on board.

Fare rises
But the long-awaited electrification of the London to Swansea Great Western route still isn't happening.

The government is deciding whether to replace the intercity fleet with electric trains, or electric-diesel hybrids. Whatever it decides will determine what happens to the electrification of the route into South Wales.

Passengers face an average fare rise of 6.2% in the new year, with some commuters seeing their tickets go up by as much as 12.8%.

The government says these fare rises are necessary to safeguard the investment that has just been announced.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11834531
Fatfield no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2010, 02:32 PM   #778
Fatfield
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 488
Likes (Received): 93

Quote:
County Durham train plant decision delayed



It was hoped the Hitachi-built trains would be in operation by 2014


The government has delayed making a decision on replacing ageing Intercity trains, which it was hoped would bring 800 jobs to County Durham.
A consortium led by Japanese company Hitachi was the preferred bidder to build carriages and trains at a site at Newton Aycliffe.
But the government will now consider a cheaper revised bid from Hitachi, as well as an alternative for a fleet of all-electric trains.
A decision is expected next year.
Hitachi was provisionally awarded a £7.5bn contract to build carriages, with its preferred location being Newton Aycliffe. The estimated boost to the North East economy was projected to be £660m over 20 years.
But the scheme is dependant on Hitachi being granted the Intercity Express Programme Contract, a decision which Transport Secretary Philip Hammond will not now make until next year.
A Department for Transport spokesman said: "A decision on this aspect will be made in due course."
'Frustration' A spokesman for Hitachi said: "We are disappointed that there is yet no decision on our bid for the IEP, and therefore on our plans to bring jobs to the UK.
"We will be continuing our talks with the Department for Transport and will consider our position in the light of these."
A delegation of North East politicians, union officials and business leaders lobbied Mr Hammond last month, urging him to approve the Newton Aycliffe factory.
Sedgefield MP Phil Wilson, whose constituency includes Newton Aycliffe, said: "I am getting sick and tired of the government putting this off.
"I can understand how frustrating this must be for all those concerned, including Hitachi.
"I will keep on at the government about this until they make a final decision."
Hopes for the work coming to Newton Aycliffe have been further dampened amid speculation the contract for new train carriages could be split between Hitachi and Derby-based train builder Bombardier.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11837345
Fatfield no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #779
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

From statement today by the government on rail spending

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rt Hon Phillip Hammond MP
....Beyond these investments in the commuter railway, there are far-reaching decisions to be made about intercity services. The Intercity Express Programme, launched by the previous Government, identified the Agility Trains consortium as preferred bidder to build a new fleet of intercity trains. This February, my predecessors invited Sir Andrew Foster, to provide an independent assessment of the programme. Sir Andrew recommended work on the Agility Trains proposal and a detailed study of the alternatives. Following this work, the four options Sir Andrew identified, have been narrowed down to two. I have ruled out the option of requiring passengers to interchange from electric to diesel trains, recognising the value to passengers of preserving through-journeys. I have also ruled out the option of a wholesale refurbishment of the existing diesel “Intercity 125” fleet, some of which dates back to the 1970s.

The remaining options are, on the one hand a revised, lower cost Agility Trains proposal, which envisages a mixed fleet: some all-electric trains, and some electric trains which are also equipped with underfloor diesel engines. And on the other, a fleet of new all-electric trains which could be coupled to new diesel locomotives where the overhead electric power lines end. Both these options would allow us to preserve through-journeys between London and parts of the rail network which are not electrified. Both of them would deliver faster journey times. For example, we expect to see a time saving of at least 15 minutes, for the journey between Cardiff and London bringing it below 2 hours.

This is a major decision which will affect intercity rail travel for decades, and we must get it right. To address outstanding issues on choice of train type and further electrification on the Great Western Main Line, additional work will be required within the Department, with Agility Trains, and with the Welsh Assembly Government on the business case for electrification into Wales. I expect to announce a final decision on IEP, and on further Great Western electrification, in the New Year.

This package I have announced today has only been possible because this government has been prepared to take the tough decisions to protect investment in Britain’s future. I will make a further oral statement to the House on the issues raised in this statement later today.
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2010, 12:14 AM   #780
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,972
Likes (Received): 6909

This thread seems to have died but I hope no one would mind if I drop a few recent shots of some suburban service trains from London. After all this is something we have to deal on a daily basis.

Also January is coming (=horrendous fare increases) . I remember last year SW Trains said they were "freezing" fare increases since on average they didn't go up... incidentally in my (and other nearby suburban stations) station it went up by around 30% (yes, thirty per cent!). Tw%ts!

All pictures taken in Clapham Junction station in London and show trains of South West Trains and Southern Trains serving South and South West areas from London including Portsmouth, Gatwick airport and many others.


British Rail Class 455 EMU. Old emus used since early 80's. Refurbished a few years ago and will remain in service for at least a few more years. They are old and unappealing but I'd rather use these for the rest of my life than pay extortionate fares which gone up by something like 200% since 2004 due to "investments in new rolling stock"

image hosted on flickr

Class 455 in Clapham Junction by jo.sau, on Flickr


British Rail Class 159 DMU. Diesel multiple units Made in early 90's
image hosted on flickr

IMG_1686 by jo.sau, on Flickr

British Rail Class 377 Electrostar EMU (Bombardier), used by Southern Trains
image hosted on flickr

IMG_1684 by jo.sau, on Flickr

Class 450 Desiro (Siemens) and old Class 455
image hosted on flickr

IMG_1680 by jo.sau, on Flickr

Class 458 Juniper EMU (Alstom). They had some major issues with reliability a few years back. Not sure how they are doing now

image hosted on flickr

IMG_1679 by jo.sau, on Flickr

Class 455, of Southern Trains. Same as SW Trains but different refurbishment.
image hosted on flickr

IMG_1677 by jo.sau, on Flickr

Last edited by Pansori; December 12th, 2010 at 12:23 AM.
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
rail, railways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium