daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 19th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #1121
PortoNuts
Registered User
 
PortoNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Porto
Posts: 24,094
Likes (Received): 7514

__________________
Got one head for money and one head for sin..
PortoNuts no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 20th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #1122
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,039
Likes (Received): 8718

The whole video is a disgrace. Not just the poor maintenance state of the tracks, but also the fact that almost every freaking train is running on Diesel.

Come on Britain, you invented this shit!
__________________
Europa per gli europei
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2012, 04:00 PM   #1123
IanCleverly
A New Kind of Medicine
 
IanCleverly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Caerphilly, South Wales
Posts: 446
Likes (Received): 230





The Homebase makeover of that station didn't last long then?
IanCleverly no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 01:08 AM   #1124
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,092
Likes (Received): 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
The whole video is a disgrace. Not just the poor maintenance state of the tracks, but also the fact that almost every freaking train is running on Diesel.

Come on Britain, you invented this shit!
I have to disagree with you! The tracks look fine to me in that video. The trains in Britain in general are so much more modern than other European countries which tend to invest a lot into HSR but forget about the rest of the network. And our diesel trains are pretty epic
__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 03:53 AM   #1125
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,039
Likes (Received): 8718

Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I have to disagree with you! The tracks look fine to me in that video. The trains in Britain in general are so much more modern than other European countries which tend to invest a lot into HSR but forget about the rest of the network. And our diesel trains are pretty epic
The tracks look fine to you? Just wait for the camera to make a turn to the right and you'll see trains jumping up and down on the uneven tracks.

So what countries are you talking about there? Those western European countries comparable to Britain all maintain better tracks than what is visible on this video.

And the rest of Europe mainly invests in speeding up existing Lines. Only a few lines are exclusively dedicated to HSR (France and Spain).
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 05:14 AM   #1126
Rational Plan
Registered User
 
Rational Plan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Slough
Posts: 3,672
Likes (Received): 678

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
The tracks look fine to you? Just wait for the camera to make a turn to the right and you'll see trains jumping up and down on the uneven tracks.

So what countries are you talking about there? Those western European countries comparable to Britain all maintain better tracks than what is visible on this video.

And the rest of Europe mainly invests in speeding up existing Lines. Only a few lines are exclusively dedicated to HSR (France and Spain).
Britain has the youngest train fleet in Europe and has experienced one of the highest rates of growth over the last 20 years.
Rational Plan está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 06:22 AM   #1127
transman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 41
Likes (Received): 3

i have recently heard of and seen a youtube video of the new E320 eurostar, does anyone know when this train will start service?
transman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:08 AM   #1128
LtBk
Registered User
 
LtBk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Greater Baltimore
Posts: 3,103
Likes (Received): 3710

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
The whole video is a disgrace. Not just the poor maintenance state of the tracks, but also the fact that almost every freaking train is running on Diesel.

Come on Britain, you invented this shit!
If you think that's bad, you should see what US rail network looks like.
LtBk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:52 AM   #1129
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,092
Likes (Received): 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
The tracks look fine to you? Just wait for the camera to make a turn to the right and you'll see trains jumping up and down on the uneven tracks.
It was going over a set of points within the station area, its hardly the main line.
__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2012, 01:49 PM   #1130
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,978
Likes (Received): 836

I love how Britain has so many 200 km/h intercity trains, but surely we can all agree that diesel for trains is a bad thing.

A few years ago, when those bad numbers (pullution per person per mode of transport) were published in the media (Jeremy Clarkson loved to point this out), the headlines said that trains performed worse than cars. However, this was only the diesel trains! They are pretty horrible for the environment (or just your lungs, if you don't care about the environment). The electric trains performed far better than cars.

Britain will never be energy independent if they run their trains on foreign diesel
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #1131
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,092
Likes (Received): 292

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
I love how Britain has so many 200 km/h intercity trains, but surely we can all agree that diesel for trains is a bad thing.

A few years ago, when those bad numbers (pullution per person per mode of transport) were published in the media (Jeremy Clarkson loved to point this out), the headlines said that trains performed worse than cars. However, this was only the diesel trains! They are pretty horrible for the environment (or just your lungs, if you don't care about the environment). The electric trains performed far better than cars.

Britain will never be energy independent if they run their trains on foreign diesel
I guess it terms of train performance, electric is better. But electric trains only move the pollution, not get rid of it. They get their power from power stations, a lot of which are coal. UK diesel trains in general a lot better than those abroad as a lot more development has gone into them, as they are the most popular trains. Top speed and acceleration in general is very good.

Example of a modern diesel train.

image hosted on flickr
__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #1132
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Electric is faster, cheaper and more efficient, and pollutes less and gets cleaner over time as the electricity grid gets cleaner.

Britain is embarking on large programmes of electrification right now anyhow.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #1133
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

i only heard about the london-bristol section, what other electrification projects are coming?
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #1134
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,978
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I guess it terms of train performance, electric is better. But electric trains only move the pollution, not get rid of it. They get their power from power stations, a lot of which are coal.
This is a common misunderstanding. Even accounting for the pollution from the coal, the electric train pollutes less. Electric trains don't just move pollution, they decrease it.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #1135
Glodenox
Registered User
 
Glodenox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zemst, BE
Posts: 1,794
Likes (Received): 655

The fact that the electricity can be produced at a remote location for many consumers at the same time makes it cheaper to improve the efficiency of the production process (and thus lower the pollution). Also, with electricity, there's at least the option to power things in a green way. With diesel trains, you can't change the power source (sure, there are some other liquid fuels that can be added to make the diesel greener, but it's a lot more limited in options and will not fully replace diesel).
__________________
Copyright remains mine for all images I post that are hosted at tomputtemans.com, unless captioned otherwise.
Glodenox no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #1136
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i only heard about the london-bristol section, what other electrification projects are coming?
There's the recent Airdrie-Bathgate reopening and electrification of its whole Edinburgh - Glasgow route (the bits that weren't already electrified)

Then there's the upcoming Edinburgh - Glasgow region programme that will electrify two further routes between the cities, as well as many branches.

Then there's the North West triangle, with Manchester - Liverpool, Manchester - Preston - Blackpool and the Loverpool - Wigan routes, which are currently at the infrastructure alteration stage (track lowering under bridges etc)

Then there's the as-of-yet unannounced Midland mainline which may be announced this year or the next.

PS, the London-Bristol programme has been extended to Cardiff too.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #1137
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
UK diesel trains in general a lot better than those abroad as a lot more development has gone into them, as they are the most popular trains.[/IMG]
Actually the number of passengers that use heavy rail electric trains is more than on the diesels. Diesels just have more route km, but are typically shorter (apart from the HSTs and southern's 2x4-car DMUs on the London - Uckfield line) and operate on far less frequent routes in general.

And I wouldn't say that UK diesels are better than those abroad. The example you posted is a French design, and similar to other Alstom diesels operating in Europe, and then there's the Siemen's veritable Desiros, which if I'm not mistaken descend from units in operation with DB. The only UK trains are the Turbostars and legacy BR units - the latter are patchy in quality but cheap, the Turbostars are fine I suppose but I can't see anything special about them.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #1138
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,562

The French don't have 'high-speed' (taking the literal over 200km/h European definition) diesel trains though. Unlike what we have the XCML and the GWML - running at 201km/h. Then again, they have no need for them, as all the services that can get to that speed are electric.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #1139
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

True, but there's another reason why our 200km/h diesels aren't that special either, and that is that apart from the HST, all our 200km/h diesel sets are basically EMUs with large noisy diesel generators strapped to the bottom. This doesn't exactly smack of amazing engineering, just obvious engineering, with negative consequences for on-train environment in it being quite noisy. (I should say "for most people", myself I'm quite partial a noisy diesel train - drowns out the unnecessary noise of other people talking)

The HST though is a different story IMO. It was simple enough concept - 125mph takes twice as much power as 100mph, so double the number of locos et voila. Coincidentally the BR designers were on fire and had just come up with the mkIII coach - arguably the one of the best ever designs for a train coach - and then there's the bogies they developed. With these the HST became a huge success.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #1140
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
There's the recent Airdrie-Bathgate reopening and electrification of its whole Edinburgh - Glasgow route (the bits that weren't already electrified)

Then there's the upcoming Edinburgh - Glasgow region programme that will electrify two further routes between the cities, as well as many branches.

Then there's the North West triangle, with Manchester - Liverpool, Manchester - Preston - Blackpool and the Loverpool - Wigan routes, which are currently at the infrastructure alteration stage (track lowering under bridges etc)

Then there's the as-of-yet unannounced Midland mainline which may be announced this year or the next.

PS, the London-Bristol programme has been extended to Cardiff too.
i see

well i certainly hope at least these will all come to fruition, but i also think a lot more should be done (bristol-penzance for example, birmingham, manchester, liverpool, leeds, sheffield, bristol s-bahn network, the remaining london commuter lines, the whole glasgow-edinburgh area etc.)

britain is fortunate in the sense that it is both an island and that the distances are relatively short
a lot could be gained by electrification and boosting main line speeds to 200-230 kph and utilizing push-pull trains (something like railjet, a quick loco and coaches: fast enough but also cheap)

dedicated HSR is only needed 'til Manchester/Leeds and eventually to Glasgow/Edinburg and it can be built in installments
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
rail, railways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium