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Old February 26th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #1141
get13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i see

well i certainly hope at least these will all come to fruition, but i also think a lot more should be done (bristol-penzance for example, birmingham, manchester, liverpool, leeds, sheffield, bristol s-bahn network, the remaining london commuter lines, the whole glasgow-edinburgh area etc.)
This is being done:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/11743.aspx
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Old February 26th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #1142
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Think train transport logos are Yellow because of the locomative called "No1 Locomative" on the Darlington & Stockon Railway line in 1825 which was the first publie railway line in the world.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 01:22 AM   #1143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i only heard about the london-bristol section, what other electrification projects are coming?
The major ones that are confirmed are....
Manchester to Liverpool
Manchester to Blackpool via Bolton and Preston
Manchester to Leeds
London to Cardiff and Bristol. (Great Western)

Also in the pipe line is the Midland Main Line which is being heavily pushed by Network Rail but I'm not sure it has funding yet. They'll also be pushing other smaller schemes.

One of problems is that certain sections are electrified but others aren't. So you now you can't travel from the North West to Newcastle or Manchester to Scotland under wires. Once the Manchester to Leeds section is electrified you can travel to Newcastle without using long distance Diesels but before that the Liverpool to Manchester section will have been completed. That means Manchester trains can travel to Scotland and Liverpool trains can travel to Newcastle via Manchester and Leeds both under wires. They'll be other key areas in the UK which can achieve the same for other short and long distance services.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #1144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i see

well i certainly hope at least these will all come to fruition, but i also think a lot more should be done (bristol-penzance for example, birmingham, manchester, liverpool, leeds, sheffield, bristol s-bahn network, the remaining london commuter lines, the whole glasgow-edinburgh area etc.)

a lot could be gained by electrification and boosting main line speeds to 200-230 kph and utilizing push-pull trains (something like railjet, a quick loco and coaches: fast enough but also cheap)
something like the 225km/h push-pull electric class 91 that operates on the ECML?



Mainline speeds in the UK are good, this is not the problem generally. (Great West Mainline, West Coast mainline, East Coast mainline, and former GWR Birmingham - Derby XC route are already upgraded to 200km/h, the Bristol - Brum route is being upgraded to 185km/h and the Midland mainline is soon to be upgraded from 185 to 200km/h where the alignment suffices.)

In terms of premium long distance services on existing track Britain has basically got it covered already. There are pretty much no classic networks in the world that outperform Britain's on speed (in general) (OK thats mostly because the countries that would have competed have gone HSR already). Not all that much can be gained from a customer's perspective - electrification will reduce costs a little, and make it a little more reliable, but it won't set the world on fire. The real benefit of electrification, unique to the UK, is that it allows rolling stock to be funded, as the bank's who now own the Rolling Stock Leasing Companies, ever the pragmatists, view diesel trains as without future and resist funding them as a reasult. And the UK has lots of diesel trains that will need replacing in the next 10 years. ergo, the Department for Transport have realised that electrification resolves lots of problems, the least of which is the actual service recieved by the passengers.

As always it takes the money men to make the civil servants see the blindingly obvious.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 02:55 AM   #1145
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Old February 29th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #1146
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Southern have produced a short time-lapse video on their Website showing the new look of the insides of their Electrostar trains.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #1147
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Steps spectacular

The refurbished Waverley Steps at Edinburgh Waverley Station have reopened to the public completing the first phase of a multi-million-pound project to overhaul the station’s Princes Street entrance.

The historic station steps have been rebuilt, and three banks of double escalators installed, as part of a £7m contract to improve access at the station.

Two 16-passenger lifts will be installed, connecting the top of the Princes Mall with the station platforms below. The new lifts will be completed by July 2012.

Says David Simpson, Network Rail route managing director for Scotland, ‘The new steps will vastly improve access to the station for passengers, especially less mobile travellers. The refurbishment has delivered a modern gateway to one of the country’s oldest stations which is also sensitive to the heritage and history of the building and those around it.’
http://www.railstaff.co.uk/2012/03/0...s-spectacular/
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Old March 4th, 2012, 02:56 AM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsor Observer
AN AMBITIOUS plan to join the two Windsor rail stations and install a £75m tunnel under the town is being considered by Network Rail.

Businessman George Bathurst, also a Conservative Royal Borough councillor, has produced a detailed business case for phase one of the project which would connect Slough to Staines, via Windsor.

The proposed tunnel passing under Thames Avenue would connect the Central and Riverside stations, reducing journey times to Paddington and Waterloo by 10 minutes, and could ultimately lead to a connection to Heathrow Airport, via Staines. Journeys from Maidenhead to Staines and south London would be reduced by 20 minutes.
Story continues Here
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Old March 4th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #1149
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I would like to see renders of that but they surely don't exist yet. Looks like a great idea.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #1150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i see

well i certainly hope at least these will all come to fruition, but i also think a lot more should be done (bristol-penzance for example, birmingham, manchester, liverpool, leeds, sheffield, bristol s-bahn network, the remaining london commuter lines, the whole glasgow-edinburgh area etc.)

britain is fortunate in the sense that it is both an island and that the distances are relatively short
a lot could be gained by electrification and boosting main line speeds to 200-230 kph and utilizing push-pull trains (something like railjet, a quick loco and coaches: fast enough but also cheap)

dedicated HSR is only needed 'til Manchester/Leeds and eventually to Glasgow/Edinburg and it can be built in installments
Does anyone know of any plans to include the Centro lines in the W. Mids in these plans? The Solihull-Moor Street-Stroubridge route would make sense, with the option to extend the wires to Worcester in future.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #1151
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no plans, they've only just replaced the trains with new diesel stock. if centro electrifiy that route it'll be as part of a larger plan imo. odds on it will happen, but not quite yet.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #1152
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HS1 at the Medway Crossing:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Eurostar crossing it after leaving Ebbsfleet:



On board:

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Old March 13th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #1153
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New rail proposals by government could lead to national oyster-card type system...

Quote:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/...k&type=article

Plans for smart ticketing for rail passengers across the UK and the prospect of even higher fares at peak timeswere unveiled by the government as it looks to save billions of pounds by radically altering the way the rail system is run.

Justine Greening, transport secretary, confirmed on Thursday that she wanted the industry to deliver savings of £3.5bn a year by 2019. Greening said passengers and taxpayers were picking up the tab for the "costly efficiency gap" and that reform was long overdue.

She said deeper collaboration between Network Rail's track managers and the train-operating companies could cut costs.

Greening wants smart ticketing along the lines of London's Oyster card to be extended to other parts of the country. She also announced a consultation on fares that could mean season tickets for part-time workers and "21st-century working practices". It could allow operators to sell airline-style ticketing, with prices rising according to demand, and new "shoulder" fares to smooth the large gaps between peak and off-peak prices.

She proposed selling tickets at corner shops and in surviving local libraries to suit passengers' needs - an idea condemned by unions, which claim 675 smaller railway booking offices are under threat.

While Greening insisted that reform and costcutting should mean commuters eventually pay less overall, passenger groups warned that allowing premium peak-time fares risked derailing any fares review.

Sophie Allain, of the Campaign for Better Transport, said that they welcomed discount fares and more smart and integrated ticketing but added: "All of this will be overshadowed if operators are allowed to charge premium fares on busiest services." Fares are already set to rise well above inflation next year and Allain said YouGov polling, which the campaign had commissioned, showed only 14% of people believed raising prices faster on busier trains was fair.

Managing rush-hour demand through higher peak fares could delay the need for longer trains, the Department for Transport believes.

The DfT's rail command paper was a response to Sir Roy McNulty's 2011 rail value-for-money study, which said UK railways were among Europe's most costly and the industry could save 20% to 30% by changing working practices.

Current central subsidies to the rail industry run at about £3bn-£4bn a year, excluding expenditure on big infrastructure projects such as Crossrail and the £33bn minimum earmarked for HS2, the high-speed rail tracks linking London with the north.

McNulty cited high wages as a problem, and proposed fewer staff on trainsand closing hundreds of smaller booking offices.

The DfT said it would award longer franchises to train operators to encourage investment, and welcomed moves by Network Rail to hand over more powers to its regional route directors. Yet Thursday's command paper was short on specifics of where the billions will be saved, with Greening saying that the detail of how cuts can be achieved would be left to the industry's own bosses to decide via the Rail Delivery Group.

However, the DfT indicated that they should seek to implement more driver-only trains and stated that future franchises would be awarded to companies with a strong record of driving down costs. Greening denied this would mean job losses overall, pointing to investment that would mean more skilled employment in the sector in years to come.

Unions have warned that concessions allowing train-operating companiesto run both trains and track would suck more taxpayers' money into private profits.

Bob Crow, RMT general secretary, called the plans "a recipe for exploitation" and warned that jobs were at risk, adding: "The assault on jobs and working conditions set up by McNulty, and now mirrored by the government, will be met by a national campaign of resistance."

The Campaign for Better Transport has warned that super-peak fares would not be effective in managing peak demand,as many commuters have inflexible work times or family commitments. Their research suggested higher peak fares would have only a marginal impact on travel patterns.

The shadow transport secretary, Maria Eagle, said the restructuring planswere "deeply worrying" and left "a massive accountability gap at its heart". She said it would create an even more fragmented system with more costs and more opportunity for train operators to raise fares and close services.

Michael Roberts, chief executive of the Association of Train Operating Companies, said that the proof of government intent would come in how franchises were awarded over the next two years: "The government must genuinely step back from the detail, [and] give the railways the freedom to run better services at a lower cost," he said.

Responding to Bob Crow, he said reducing costs was crucial to deliver services at a price people can pay. "This is not about yesterday's ways of driving trains or manning ticket offices. If it's not affordable none of us are going to have jobs on the railways. There are working practices that can be modernised. That doesn't necessarily mean making people redundant."

Greening also announced a consultation on devolving power over the network, an opportunity welcomed by regional transport authorities, which would like to emulate the kind of integrated model of Transport for London.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #1154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
New rail proposals by government could lead to national oyster-card type system...
You mean like that system in the Netherlands that is having quite a lot of trouble dealing with a handfull of different operators...
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Old March 13th, 2012, 10:57 PM   #1155
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For some reason, the UK is NOT getting its rail price policy right. Other national rail systems manage to turn a profit even with less government support and LOWER prices.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #1156
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Do they turn a profit even with infrastructure costs included?

Rail staff are pretty well paid here but I'm not sure what other differences there could be to explain the costs, passenger numbers have soared in the past 10-15 years so the extra ticketing income should be seriously improving the profitability but it doesn't seem to work that way....
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Old March 14th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
You mean like that system in the Netherlands that is having quite a lot of trouble dealing with a handfull of different operators...
80% of problems were solved already here.

===============================

The idea of fares that vary along the day is very interesting.

Capacity constraints are usually dictated by peak-time offer. So to smooth the demand curve by price discrimination is a good practice.

Moreover, there is quite a myth that UK has the most expensive fares in Europe. That is only true if they compare turn-up-and-go tickets. But they account for less than 20% of all UK rail travel. Commuter have passes (which are never included in such statistics because pass schemes differs so much among countries), and people can buy significantly discounted tickets if only booking up to midnight before travel - in many cases, before 5am the day of travel.

Ticketing offices are arcane, and people working there must realize their function was overtaken by technology. Otherwise, UK would look like Belgium with its very limited ticketing possibilities to "save jobs" on ticket offices.

As UK is accelerating the installation of gates in stations, ticket offices must go as well to allow lower staffing costs and stations whose only staff is security.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #1158
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Just to illustrate how the ticketing prices work I made a few comparisons on the Manchester-London Virgin Trains route which is one of the busiest with some of the highest headline fares.

It's a 310km trip and the journey takes just over 2 hours.

If I want to travel NOW, just turn up and buy a single ticket for the next train at peak time it will cost me £148 in standard class.



If i am able to book even one day in advance the price falls dramatically, with tickets available for £62.50 and that's in first class.



If I want to go on Saturday in two days time the price falls to £49, again in first class.



If I book 10 days in advance and choose an off-peak train I can get a standard class ticket for £25.



Book a month or more in advance and you can get the cheapest tickets, £12 here to travel on Tue 24th April.



If you have one of the various railcards that are available to young people, pensioners, families etc then you get a one third discount from these prices so you could make the trip from £8.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #1159
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That's an insane price difference, and very complex.


But I do like the sound of the 12 pound ticket...
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Old March 15th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #1160
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Yes the differences are huge, it's just the same yield management pricing that airlines use, you would expect to pay more if you turned up at an airport and bought your ticket just before flying rather than booking in advance...
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