daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 15th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #1161
MattN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The M1
Posts: 3,115
Likes (Received): 91

Of course, people don't use railways in the same way as airlines, and look at the time you have to make the trip in order to obtain that fare. The headline fares are generally what you pay when making journeys for business.
MattN no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 15th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #1162
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20320

I think most business trips can be planned at least a couple of days in advance.

Only 17% of tickets sold are at the headline rate and for shorter journeys that people are likely to make frequently and without planning the differences in ticket prices aren't anything like as much.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #1163
MattN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The M1
Posts: 3,115
Likes (Received): 91

Advance tickets will exist for a lot of peak time trips, but at far higher rates. The sort of rates you quote do not exist before the afternoon. Additionally, most commuters will purchase season tickets, which often feature in headlines.

As I said, people do not use trains like planes on the whole. When going abroad in particular there are often rather more things to plan then when going within your own country up to say 200 miles, so you will need to book further ahead anyway. I don't see how the current pricing system really benefits anyone, especially passengers. It screws over those who need to travel when they do, regardless of how much nonsense is said about 'encouraging off-peak travel'. Leisure travellers have to subject themselves to some strange game or lottery on the internet to find particularly cheap prices, needing to travel when a computer program wants and being restricted to a specific train.

I have rather tired of it and, in common with most people I know, since getting a car I generally use it to make leisure trips. You know what price you are going to pay and can go when you want. If you're going with someone else it wins hands down anyway, unless perhaps you want to park it in central London.
MattN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #1164
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20320

Of course a car gives more flexibility that's clear, but you do have to pay several thousand pounds upfront plus several hundred pounds a year fixed costs to own it even before you travel the first mile.

The two cost models are very different.

The £49 ticket for first class travel at 935 in the morning in two days time is not bad I think, especially for somebody with a railcard to make it £32.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #1165
MattN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The M1
Posts: 3,115
Likes (Received): 91

The fact is though that most people have already paid those upfront costs, what incentive is there then? Part of the reason for this will be that public transport cannot meet all their needs. There are other countries (and cities, but that's something else) with considerably higher modal shares for public transport but similar rates of car ownership. Looking at the attractiveness of the rail fare system from the perspective of somebody who doesn't own a car is a bit futile really.

EDIT: An interesting example of two fare systems going head to head is in the Netherlands, when the FYRA service launched along the high speed line. Admittedly this still uses lower speed stock and operated reduced hours at first; the correct stock is still awaited and years late due to technical errors. At first I think it charged a EUR 7.40 supplement over normal fares but this proved a disaster. So it was made that you could save a fair few euro using this route if you booked in advance (I believe it was at least 10 euro, about a third of the cost), but if you walked up you had to pay the supplement. Off peak the trains were running at 5% occupancy and the operation which had been set up to separate it from the NS had to be bailed out, the NS will now run it and the surcharge reduced to EUR 2.70. People preferred to pay a bit more, even for a slower service, because they had total flexibility.

Last edited by MattN; March 15th, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
MattN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #1166
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20320

The answer to that is to encourage different cost models for both cars and PT so that people don't feel tied to their cars even where PT would be a good option.

Car sharing/short term car rental schemes so that some car users don't need to own a vehicle to have use of one when they need it, then they can make decisions on a journey by journey basis rather than just using the car all the time because they've already paid for it anyway.

Don't forget that 25% of households don't own a car anyway...
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 06:38 PM   #1167
MattN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The M1
Posts: 3,115
Likes (Received): 91

It might help to a point, but again seems to involve quite a lot of planning each time you want to go anywhere and not that much flexibility. Surely one thing which is demonstrated by both current levels of car use, and the Dutch train fare situation, is that people will choose the option that enables them to go easily, when they want, for a simple, straightforward, reasonable price?

I think the other thing public transport needs is much better, genuine, integration and joined up planning.
MattN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 10:39 PM   #1168
PortoNuts
Registered User
 
PortoNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Porto
Posts: 24,100
Likes (Received): 7531

Kings Cross Station

image hosted on flickr

Kings-Cross-22-©-Phil-Adams by GODDAMNINT, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Kings-Cross-6-©-Hufton-and-Crow by GODDAMNINT, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

Kings-Cross-2-©-Hufton-and-Crow by GODDAMNINT, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Security cameras by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Ticket booking hall by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Roof and wayfinding sign by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Ticket gates to Platforms 0-8 by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr
__________________
Got one head for money and one head for sin..
PortoNuts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #1169
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,070
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Ticketing offices are arcane, and people working there must realize their function was overtaken by technology. Otherwise, UK would look like Belgium with its very limited ticketing possibilities to "save jobs" on ticket offices.
What the heck is that ??? Do you realize how small Belgium is ? SNCB is not
much more than a big metro system. It's not much bigger than the
Ile de France network around Paris. For so small distances, maximum flexibility
is an absolute must. The competitor is the car, not the plane. You don't plan
50 km trips 2 days in advance... What will come next, yield management on
Brussels trams ??? I can't think of any country with the size of Belgium
where yield management has been introduced on domestic trains.

And, by the way, there are ticket vending machines in almost every belgian
station. But ticket offices remain because people want them. Not uncommon
to see in stations a queue for the ticket office, while the vending machine,
in perfect working order, remains idle. People like social contacts, and prefer
talking to a human rather than to a computer...

Geez, I really wouldn't want to live in the world you are dreaming of...
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 11:27 PM   #1170
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,980
Likes (Received): 836

I absolutely love this new European wave of combining the ultra-modern with the classic design (Antwerp, St. Pancras). Much better than the 60s and 70s where they just tore down the old stuff and put horrible new stuff in its place.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #1171
kevsy21
Registered User
 
kevsy21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 235
Likes (Received): 144

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
HS1 at the Medway Crossing:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Eurostar crossing it after leaving Ebbsfleet:



On board:

Great shots.
__________________
My Flickr Pics
https://flic.kr/ps/244Wsj

My Liverpool Blog-- http://urbanliverpool.blogspot.com/
kevsy21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #1172
Stainless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pyeongnae
Posts: 420
Likes (Received): 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
I absolutely love this new European wave of combining the ultra-modern with the classic design (Antwerp, St. Pancras). Much better than the 60s and 70s where they just tore down the old stuff and put horrible new stuff in its place.
+1

I like the idea of extending the indoor area and making parts of the building that used to be outside inside. Strasbourg is a good example of this.
Stainless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #1173
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
+1

I like the idea of extending the indoor area and making parts of the building that used to be outside inside. Strasbourg is a good example of this.
+2. That lattice roof at Kings X is fantastic.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #1174
PortoNuts
Registered User
 
PortoNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Porto
Posts: 24,100
Likes (Received): 7531

Quote:
Greater Anglia to install 3,500 bicycle spaces at rail stations

Greater Anglia customers are set to benefit from 3,500 new cycle parking spaces.

The train operator’s Cambridge station will gain 3,000 of these new cycle parking spaces, in proposals which will see the largest CyclePoint ever created in the UK with facilities for repair, hire and cycle sales all included in the project.

Funding from the Department for Transport will augment funding already pledged by CB1 developer Brookgate, as part of a wider station upgrade delivered in partnership with Network Rail.

Greater Anglia’s Chelmsford station will be the location for a 500 space CyclePoint, which will include maintenance, information and cycle hire facilities.

The train operator has already dedicated some of its own funding to this project, which will be augmented with contributions from the DfT and Essex County Council.

A further, innovative scheme to improve cycle facilities for Greater Anglia customers will be the introduction of PlusBike cycle hire schemes at 15 stations across the Greater Anglia network.
http://www.rail.co/2012/03/13/greate...rail-stations/
__________________
Got one head for money and one head for sin..
PortoNuts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2012, 11:48 PM   #1175
PortoNuts
Registered User
 
PortoNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Porto
Posts: 24,100
Likes (Received): 7531

Kings Cross in all its glory.

by RedArkady.

image hosted on flickr

DSC01506 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01504 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01503 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01502 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01501 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01500 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01499 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01498 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01496 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01494 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01493 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01526 by RedArkady, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

DSC01525 by RedArkady, on Flickr
__________________
Got one head for money and one head for sin..
PortoNuts no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2012, 06:02 AM   #1176
Darloeye
Registered User
 
Darloeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: County Durham, England
Posts: 1,823
Likes (Received): 84



Think that pub is going to have £5 beers ?
Darloeye no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2012, 09:06 AM   #1177
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darloeye View Post


Think that pub is going to have £5 beers ?
It's London, what do you expect?
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #1178
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

The hygiene to draft lines is suspect everywhere, so it's just a matter how much one wishes to dole out for her/his runs
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #1179
RedArkady
Viewseeker
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 546
Likes (Received): 37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darloeye View Post


Think that pub is going to have £5 beers ?
I bought three beers for about £12.
RedArkady no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2012, 09:23 PM   #1180
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

If still in use, what destinations does this stock serve?


clickable...
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
rail, railways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium