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Old July 5th, 2013, 11:35 AM   #1521
makita09
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
This is a strange notion to me. We´re not used to this "being British but not part of the UK". Curious.
There are lots of British who aren't part of the UK. Channel Islanders, Manx, Gibraltar....if you aren't confused yet, watch this and you will be....Gibraltar can't be part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland because it is not on the island of Great Britain, and it isn't the country of Northern Ireland.



And then, if you want to be more confused, watch the video on London, which is a city within a city in a country within a country.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #1522
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A railway going through/under Gibraltar would probably be arranged the
same way as the french one going under Monaco.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 05:23 PM   #1523
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A railway going through/under Gibraltar would probably be arranged the
same way as the french one going under Monaco.
Still, it would be really expensive.
The tunnel should start outside La Línea.
And Gibraltar used to be an island thousands of years ago, so probably under the airport there´s loads of water.
It´s not unfeasible, but really expensive.

But well, to have the possibility, we should start our part of the line, and that won´t happen in many years yet.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #1524
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Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
There are lots of British who aren't part of the UK. Channel Islanders, Manx, Gibraltar....if you aren't confused yet, watch this and you will be....Gibraltar can't be part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland because it is not on the island of Great Britain, and it isn't the country of Northern Ireland.

And then, if you want to be more confused, watch the video on London, which is a city within a city in a country within a country.
It's only confusing if you make it confusing. It's actually all very simple.

The United Kingdom is a sovereign state. It consists of Great Britain (in the political, not geographic, sense - that is, the countries of England, Wales, Scotland) and Northern Ireland.

There are then territories which are not part of the United Kingdom (but not because they're not on the island of Great Britain - they simply are not part of the United Kingdom) but are not themselves sovereign - they come ultimately under British sovereignty. They are grouped into two types: the Crown Dependencies (Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man) and the British Overseas Territories (14 territories across the world, including Gibraltar). They can best be thought of as non-sovereign states, with varying degrees of self-government. But they're not part of the United Kingdom - the United Kingdom merely has sovereignty over them (and therefore overseas their external matters: ie defence and foreign affairs). As such, they can be considered as remnants of the Empire, and - as has been the case since 1945 with British territories - they are gradually made more self-governing and can become independent, sovereign states if they wish (I can see Bermuda one day becoming independent, for example, whilst Gibraltar and the Falklands clearly wish to remain British). A good example of how they are not part of the UK is that they don't use the British pound - either they have their own pound, which is pegged to the British pound, or they use a completely different currency!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...as_Territories

Regarding your comment about London, again, it's a case of making it as complicated as you want it to be. The City of London is the area with official city status and this is a small part of the city (as in, a large settlement) of London. It is in England, a country, which is a constituent country of the United Kingdom, which of course is also described as a country. But why is any of this complicated? It's no more or less complicated than, say, the cities, parishes, counties, states, etc, used in the USA (which also has sovereignty over territories which themselves are not part of the USA). Also take a look at France or the Netherlands and how they deal with their non-European territories - different to how Britain deals with its territories!
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 03:44 PM   #1525
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A Romanian gang caused travel chaos after stealing FOUR MILES of railway cable worth £500,000,in the UK...
Romanians are gonna ruin British Railways!
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 09:32 PM   #1526
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Too bad this handsome class is plagued by problems.
Handsome indeed:
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Old July 29th, 2013, 03:10 AM   #1527
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 05:11 PM   #1528
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The main problem with the railways in Britain, apart from the complicated and sometimes very expensive fares system, is we seem to have fallen behind in the high speed rail stakes for domestic rail services. 125 mph might have been very good 30 years ago, but even a country like Spain with terrible economic problems manages to have 160 mph trains. Although HS2 is welcome, it won't be completed for another 20 years. Also we have trains on the ECML that are capable of 140 mph, but are restricted to 125 mph, surely it can't be that expensive to uprate these and the Pendolinos to 140 mph running as an interim measure before HS2.
Not forgetting the political football that was the APT, which would have led to Glasgow- Euston journey times of 3.5 hours in 1981, something which might happen in 20 years time
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Old August 4th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #1529
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To those asking about the GWML - there was a recent news report about the electrification train being delivered.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/20...ion-programme/


Also one correction to an earlier answer - the line was always to be electrified to Cardiff and so the Severn Tunnel was always to be done. It was the Cardiff to Swansea section that was the political football.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 02:51 PM   #1530
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Originally Posted by Aylett 67 View Post
The main problem with the railways in Britain, apart from the complicated and sometimes very expensive fares system, is we seem to have fallen behind in the high speed rail stakes for domestic rail services. 125 mph might have been very good 30 years ago, but even a country like Spain with terrible economic problems manages to have 160 mph trains. Although HS2 is welcome, it won't be completed for another 20 years. Also we have trains on the ECML that are capable of 140 mph, but are restricted to 125 mph, surely it can't be that expensive to uprate these and the Pendolinos to 140 mph running as an interim measure before HS2.
Not forgetting the political football that was the APT, which would have led to Glasgow- Euston journey times of 3.5 hours in 1981, something which might happen in 20 years time
The problem is that 125mph is considered the maximum safe speed for lineside signals and installing a cab signalling system is where things do get expensive.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #1531
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^ except where signals are life expired, they will be replaced by ERTMS because it is cheaper. This was posted a couple of pages back.

The GWML and ECML are first on the list. Maybe 140mph will come with that.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 05:26 PM   #1532
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^ except where signals are life expired, they will be replaced by ERTMS because it is cheaper. This was posted a couple of pages back.

The GWML and ECML are first on the list. Maybe 140mph will come with that.
It would make sense. Actually why not when the GWML is being electrified, upgrade it to 140 mph.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 08:31 AM   #1533
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The problem is that 125mph is considered the maximum safe speed for lineside signals and installing a cab signalling system is where things do get expensive.
On the other hand: Why would you build an entire high speed line when increasing speeds to 140 mph is just as effective?
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Old August 5th, 2013, 09:53 AM   #1534
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^ only if the objective is London - Scotland as fast as possible and to hell with capacity or all other journey pairs. Also it's only valid if HS2 stops at Leeds and it's trains are restricted to 110 mph north of there.

In other words, this was Virgin politicking.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 12:16 PM   #1535
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On the other hand: Why would you build an entire high speed line when increasing speeds to 140 mph is just as effective?
Because it won't be nearly as effective. Quite the contrary. HS2 tackles the scarcity of capacity first and foremost. Speed is a secondary aspect of this project. Increasing speeds on the existing lines, however, does even reduce the capacity there. Where you see effectiveness in 225 km/h on the WCML remains your secret.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #1536
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I'm just repeating what Alstom claims. Simple question then: What limits the capacity of the WCML?
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #1537
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I'm just repeating what Alstom claims. Simple question then: What limits the capacity of the WCML?
The number of tracks, the inhomogeneity of services and the train control system probably too.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #1538
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The number of tracks required very much depends on the speed difference between the users. Reducing this difference would help a lot, bringing us to the next point: With inhomogeneity of services, do you mean mixed passenger/freight services? In that case you could also consider building a much cheaper freight only line instead of a HSL. Also consider that the WCML probably runs were it runs because that's where the passengers are (You're not going to build a new HSL train station in the middle of nowhere.)

Upgrading an existing line to ETCS L2 with very short blocks, will also clear the line faster after any train.

But having said all that, if you read the article I linked it already stated that HS2 was a done deal. So any argument against HS2 has already been weighed and rejected.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #1539
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With inhomogeneity of services, do you mean mixed passenger/freight services?
No, I actually meant the inhomogeneity of the speed of various service. The large bandwidth of speed on the WCML cost a lot of capacity. Especially the high-speed of the intercity services eat up plenty of space on this railway. By building a separate railway for fast intercity service one can free far more train paths on the existing line than a freight railway could achieve.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 01:42 AM   #1540
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No, I actually meant the inhomogeneity of the speed of various service. The large bandwidth of speed on the WCML cost a lot of capacity. Especially the high-speed of the intercity services eat up plenty of space on this railway. By building a separate railway for fast intercity service one can free far more train paths on the existing line than a freight railway could achieve.
What you're suggesting has already been done - close to London and other cities this line is 4 or 6 tracked so the slower metro services and intercity services are seperated. An entire new seperate line for intercity only is exactly what HS2 is..
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