daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 6th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #1541
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153


That's exactly his point

However past Rugby or so (I'm not entirely sure) The number of tracks begins to waver between 3, 4 and 2
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 6th, 2013, 08:27 AM   #1542
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

How busy exactly is the WCML? Because what never seizes to amaze me is that in Japan they can run a Shinkansen every 3 minutes without problems on a 2 track line (a Kodama can be considered a local service, a Nozomi an intercity), something no other railway in the entire world seems to be able to achieve (for a line where the slowest service is still in the 140+ km/h region).
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #1543
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

It's pretty busy with departures from Euston aroughtly every 5-7 minutes.

The expresses tend to be 10 minutes apart
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #1544
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,557

There's 9 Virgin services an hour (so how they can be ten minutes apart...). Plus a fast-line London Midland train (or two).

Unlike Shinkansen, there aren't platform loops. And Shinkansen doesn't run 20tph: the HS2 documentation - and the antis really picked up on it when phase 1 was just published - talks about 14tph being the current maximum on a high speed railway and how, while 18tph will be easy to enact, it's not been done before.

Fast line services leave in bunches at 3/4 minute intervals, then a 8-10 minute gap between bunches. The problems with upping the frequency (which the signalling can clearly take - though Euston can't) is stopping: a uniform stopping pattern would have to be enacted (as will be done on the GWML: Paddington-Old Oak-Reading-onto various branches where it matters less). A train stopping at Watford Junction fast line platforms takes two paths through the station. Ditto stopping at MK. So they are flighted - trains that non-stop to north of Rugby go first, then those that stop at MK first, then those that stop at WJ. Then there's a couple of paths gap, and another set of trains go.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #1545
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

You're describing the, unfortunately inevitable, results of past design decisions that are currently causing suboptimal performance. Changing that on a running line is pretty much impossible without major disruptions.

One other thing I noticed that passenger trains in the UK aren't very long. An 11 car Pendolino is just 265m long, whereas passenger trains up to 400m aren't uncommon in continental Europe (a Eurostar set is also 400m). I suppose also a relic from the past when they didn't anticipate the future need for longer trains?
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #1546
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21239

What about the length of signaling blocks?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #1547
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

When a train moves from one block to the next it already occupies 2 blocks at the same time. There is no reason why it couldn't occupy 3 or 4 blocks at the same time. The only limit on block length is the longest distance between 2 axles in single train, but 15 meter blocks look a bit over the top to me.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #1548
ramakrishna1984
Registered User
 
ramakrishna1984's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,039
Likes (Received): 788

Tottenham Court Road Station, London

Crossrail and Transport for London (TfL) are jointly redeveloping the existing Tottenham Court Road Tube station and constructing a new station with an estimated investment of £1bn ($1.6bn). The redevelopment of the 100 years-old tube station began in June 2011 and is expected to be completed by 2016-2017.
ramakrishna1984 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #1549
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
How busy exactly is the WCML? Because what never seizes to amaze me is that in Japan they can run a Shinkansen every 3 minutes without problems on a 2 track line (a Kodama can be considered a local service, a Nozomi an intercity), something no other railway in the entire world seems to be able to achieve (for a line where the slowest service is still in the 140+ km/h region).
It is possible because the bandwidth of speeds is minimal. All trains on these lines run at the same or nearly the same speed. Only that makes it possible to fit in so many services on these two track railways.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2013, 08:47 AM   #1550
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
It is possible because the bandwidth of speeds is minimal. All trains on these lines run at the same or nearly the same speed.
The difference between the fastest and slowest train may only be 30 km/h, but not only are the slower trains used for Kodama services, those slower trains are also the slower accellerating models. They are actually running a few Kodamas with the newest stock just to be able to sqeeze extra trains into the schedule. In the UK it's the other way around: the trains with a slower top speed actually accellerate much faster.

But yes I do realise one major difference: Shinkansen run on time with delays measured in seconds. There is no other rail system with comparable complexity in the world that comes close to it's punctuality. It's not uncommon that lack of punctuality is the real reason you can't expand services.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #1551
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Fast line services leave in bunches at 3/4 minute intervals, then a 8-10 minute gap between bunches. The problems with upping the frequency (which the signalling can clearly take - though Euston can't) is stopping: a uniform stopping pattern would have to be enacted
You could have trains leave every 2 minutes (no problem with modern signalling), and send them out in bunches, so that the first one in a bunch goes the furthest non stop. And indeed have uniform patterns for the rest.

An other option are passing loops with switches that can be used at high speed, which can allow a through train to overtake a stopping one. This is how it's done on the Shinkansen.

About Euston's capacity: You can normally have about 4 departures per hour on a terminal track. The limiting factor however is often crossing movements in the station approaches.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #1552
Kolothos
slyscrapercity
 
Kolothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,983
Likes (Received): 768

On the Glasgow end, the WCML is clogged up with suburban services running at metro frequencies. After the Argyle Line services peel off towards Rutherglen to head into the subsurface tunnels, longer distance services then share with the south suburban services on the approach to Central. Crossing movements are limited by keeping the intercity trains to (roughly) Platforms 1-5, and keeping the Suburban trains to Platforms 6-16, but there is still some movements between these platforms (EK and Barrhead Line trains regularly use the ''intercity'' platforms due to capacity constraints, while Trans Penine and CrossCountry services regularly cross into the Suburban platforms. There's a pretty tight bottleneck on the approach into Central, the track bed narrows over the Clyde before widening back up.

Expect some serious construction work to be announced on Glasgow's rail network in the next few years. Capacity for HS2 CC trains, as well as the Edinburgh-Glasgow High Speed line, will be required within the city. This will either involve building a new terminus at High Street, or, more likely, involve diverting Suburban services away from Central, which would mean Glasgow Crossrail, which will either consist of reopening the City Union elevated railway through the east of the city centre, or just deep bore tunneling under Glasgow.
Kolothos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #1553
DaeguDuke
Meat popsicle
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
Likes (Received): 1888

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolothos View Post
This will either involve building a new terminus at High Street, or, more likely, involve diverting Suburban services away from Central, which would mean Glasgow Crossrail, which will either consist of reopening the City Union elevated railway through the east of the city centre, or just deep bore tunneling under Glasgow.
Definetly crossrail as it's the cheapest with the most benefits. Infrastructure is already open and in use as a freight line. Not sure it would help the WCML at the north end apart from allowing an extension of direct services to destinations north of the Clyde
DaeguDuke no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2013, 06:50 AM   #1554
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2013, 06:52 AM   #1555
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

__________________
.
hee hee
.

Last edited by trainrover; August 27th, 2013 at 02:25 AM.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #1556
Black Watch
Labore et Scientia
 
Black Watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Clydebank
Posts: 1,574
Likes (Received): 2107

Quote:
What started out as an arm of British Nuclear Fuels back in 1995, Direct Rail Services has expanded to become one of the largest operators of both freight and passenger services in the United Kingdom, rivalling both of the mainstream established freight operators Freightliner and DB Schenker. Originally running the nuclear flask services that had been handed over from EWS, the operator now runs a wide variety of services, including intermodal and container services, measurement trains for Network Rail, RHTT services, ECS and coaching stock movements, hoppers and charter services, as well as being a major part of other operators, using their locomotives to rescue stranded Pendolino sets and so forth.

Last edited by Black Watch; August 23rd, 2013 at 01:03 PM.
Black Watch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2013, 02:22 AM   #1557
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

1963

1/3:

2/3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsIIZlH0Rw

3/3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBE2fR0z3CI
__________________
.
hee hee
.

Robi_damian, flierfy liked this post
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 11:00 AM   #1558
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,339
Likes (Received): 26130

From BBC the timelapses of trains between London Victoria and Brighton from different years: 1953, 1983, 2013.

__________________

Robi_damian, BringMe, Black Watch, Nexis liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2013, 05:51 AM   #1559
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738



1/2:

2/2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euX65WsaxNk
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2013, 04:39 AM   #1560
silent_dragon
What a wonderful world
 
silent_dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 146
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
From BBC the timelapses of trains between London Victoria and Brighton from different years: 1953, 1983, 2013.

Very awesome.
__________________
Civilization game player since CIV3 to CIV5.


Got computing brains or extra bucks? Support this Green tech INDIEGOGO Project Paperless Receipts

SteveAWOL liked this post
silent_dragon no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
rail, railways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium