Merseyrail Underground Thread

[Gareth]

Anyway, if allowed to actually move on-topic, here's a network diagram I've made that I'd put above the doors, as an alternative to the new one which they've implemented, which is quite hideous. I've based it on the Hong Kong MTR map...

[mr_jrt]

Just a point of curiosity...

Does anyone know why the loop option was chosen rather than running new tunnels from James Street to Lime Street & having the Moorfields to Central aligned more between the two, having a interchange station in the centre? I'd have thought TPTB would've jumped at the chance to free up platform and/or approach capacity at Lime St. if nothing else, it's not like the loop serves any additional stations not on that route.

[AAA94]

Originally Posted by Gareth

don't put my name in single quotations. It doesn't make any sense, grammatically.

i dont care this is a forum, not an english exam.

Aaagh, has it ever even fractionally occurred to you that you might be a clueless knobhead? Just wondering...

no its never occured to me, seeing as i dont have a massive dick as a face thats quite clear. please keep your playground comments to yourself.

Great thread Martin. Shame that Tommy and AAA have not reached puberty yet.

My city is better than yours. Get a life.

The Mod's should ban both of you.

I would also like to apologize for completely swaying off subject, didnt intend to start a "my horse is bigger than your horse" arguement. i was just sick of reading this thread and practically all the threads on this

Transport and Urban Planning and Infrastructure

forum and seeing tommy ramble on about how

great

and liverpool is. again i apologize for being an annoyance to all those wanting to talk about Merseyrail underground. and i am ashamed to even be at all compared to Tommy.

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by AAA94

I would also like to apologize for completely swaying off subject...

Apology accepted.

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by mr_jrt

Just a point of curiosity...

Does anyone know why the loop option was chosen rather than running new tunnels from James Street to Lime Street & having the Moorfields to Central aligned more between the two, having a interchange station in the centre? I'd have thought TPTB would've jumped at the chance to free up platform and/or approach capacity at Lime St. if nothing else, it's not like the loop serves any additional stations not on that route.

There were several proposals at the time. For better or worse, the priority was seen as giving Wirral residents a wide choice of access of the city centre, rather than the systems actual usefulness as a metro within the centre. There were proposals to link the eastern lines with the Northern Line by linking Edge Hill to Central via an existing tunnel but this got put on ice and was never returned to.

[TommyMogan]

Originally Posted by mr_jrt

Just a point of curiosity...

Does anyone know why the loop option was chosen rather than running new tunnels from James Street to Lime Street & having the Moorfields to Central aligned more between the two, having a interchange station in the centre? I'd have thought TPTB would've jumped at the chance to free up platform and/or approach capacity at Lime St. if nothing else, it's not like the loop serves any additional stations not on that route.

The loops only advantage is that trains only have one terminal on the Wirral.

One idea was as you said, but with a tunnel branched into the Waterloo Tunnel from James St which then left further up and went to Everton. The cost was about the same. This is a much superior idea all around as it services an inner-city dead spot away from rail lines with an underground station.

The loop can be branched into the Waterloo Tunnel. Central Stn can be moved further down the line and have pedestrian tunnels to Lime St, abandoning the existing Lime St tunnel. The Wirral lines could then run to Edge Hill and beyond.

Overall the Loop was a daft idea and whoever OKed it needs sacking if he is still working.

[jetsetwilly]

Originally Posted by Gareth

Anyway, if allowed to actually move on-topic, here's a network diagram I've made that I'd put above the doors, as an alternative to the new one which they've implemented, which is quite hideous. I've based it on the Hong Kong MTR map...

Good map Gareth, though personally I'd prefer ticks to circles for the stations; circles just imply interchange for me, and it'd make the likes of South Parkway and Lime Street stand out more. Good call on leaving out the totally unnecessary City Lines though, and I like your idea of using symbols to show the different services!

[Gareth]

Cheers for that. Like I said, I based it on Hong Kong's MTR map. Each of the circles has a bulb which exstinguishes when the station has been served, which I've always thought was a neat touch; maybe something for the new rolling stock, when it finally arrives.

[MattN]

I'm not too sure how the City Lines are unnecessary though. They aren't part of the same franchise but surely they are just as much a part of Liverpool's urban rail network?

[Gareth]

They're not Merseyrail though and go to destinations in the Greater Manchester area, which is impractical to squeeze on the map, especially one above the doors. You may as well include bus services as well.

[MattN]

You wouldn't necessarily have to show every station on the route though, just those within Merseyside, because as I said whilst it isn't the same franchise I don't see how those City Line stations within Merseyside are any less a part of the local rail network than those on the electric routes. They serve much the same purpose and have much the same service levels.

Not criticising your map btw, it's a neat design, just responding to jetsetwilly's assertion that the City Lines are totally unnecessary.

[WatcherZero]

I dont like how geographically nonsensical the top left quadrant of the map is, Southport, Ormskirk and Kirkby appear to be between the city centre and the mouth of the mersey! even allowing that Southport and Ormskirk are almost due North Kirkby is due east!

[Gareth]

It's a diagramatic map, designed to fit in a rectangle over the doors. So long as it shows services and where they go, most people aren't going to lose sleep over where Ormskirk is on it, in relation to Kirkby.

And the 'City Lines' which are not part of Merseyrail, just wouldn't fit on such a map. All that's needed is to know where connections with these lines and other non-Merseyrail lines are possible.

[jetsetwilly]

Originally Posted by MattN

I'm not too sure how the City Lines are unnecessary though. They aren't part of the same franchise but surely they are just as much a part of Liverpool's urban rail network?

I'd say it's much the same as the in-car diagrams on the Tube. There's a line diagram which shows, say, the entire length of the Northern Line, and indications of where it interchanges with other lines. If you're on one of the electrified Merseyrail trains, you just need to know where to change to the City Line.

The existing in-car diagrams list only a few stations, so if you wanted to get to, say, West Allerton or Roby, the maps showing the City Line are still no use.

Re the little bulbs in the Hong Kong map - nice idea, but if we're going wish lists on the new stock, I'd prefer those animated LED signs they have on the New York subway that scroll on with each new station. Hey, I can dream

[MattN]

Oh, right, must have got mixed up about it being for onboard use after reading jetsetwilly's original post on the matter, apologies folks.

[MarkO]

Originally Posted by Gareth

Anyway, if allowed to actually move on-topic, here's a network diagram I've made that I'd put above the doors, as an alternative to the new one which they've implemented, which is quite hideous. I've based it on the Hong Kong MTR map...

Really nice map Gareth. :-)

[playboy 1981]

I would like some info re James Street Station, namely the Eastbound Platform 2 which isn't generally used since the creation of the loop line.

Can anyone tell me:

a) How old the sculltured murals are on the station walls?

b) Is there a preservation order on that platform? Since it is all we have left visible of the original victorian mersey railway underground system, I would hate to ever see it destroyed for the purposes of modernisation should the platform ever come back in to regular use.

Any other info on this platform would be of much interest.

[Gareth]

I'm not sure about who created the artwork, but I don't think it's original to the station, which dates all the way back to 1886.

I'm not aware of any preservation order, though that said, I really don't think the artwork is under any threat of removal. Indeed, the original tiled fixtures for Platform 3 (the other original platform) are still in place, just under the plastic stuff that they clad over it in the seventies. The two original Hamilton Square platforms are the same.

The stations are due a refurb and when they finally get it, I would like to see the original tiles made visible, once again.

[Martin S]

Originally Posted by playboy 1981

I would like some info re James Street Station, namely the Eastbound Platform 2 which isn't generally used since the creation of the loop line.

Can anyone tell me:

a) How old the sculltured murals are on the station walls?

b) Is there a preservation order on that platform? Since it is all we have left visible of the original victorian mersey railway underground system, I would hate to ever see it destroyed for the purposes of modernisation should the platform ever come back in to regular use.

Any other info on this platform would be of much interest.

Hi playboy!

The murals are not that old. I think they date from the 1980s, maybe a bit later. I seem to remember that there was another artwork there before the present one.



Platform 2 is still in use as an emergency platform for occasions when the Loop Line is closed. I remember using it last year when the Loop was shut and it was acting as both an arrival and departure platform.

I don't think there is a preservation order on that platform but, as Gareth says, the old brickwork at James Street and Hamilton Square is still there but hidden behind the cladding installed when the Merseyrail underground was under construction. Hopefully a future restoration will uncover some or all of this old brickwork.

What I miss most is the old lifts with their concertina doors - the new ones seem much smaller. What fascinated me, when I was a kid was that each lift entrance used to have a model of the lift going up and down in a glass tube - beats computer graphics any day.

[Accura4Matalan]

Sorry to move away from the current discussion, but does anyone know if Merseyrail's stock refresh that is due to occur within the next couple of years has been affected by Tory cuts?