Merseyrail Underground Thread

[Mostly Lurking]

Originally Posted by Accura4Matalan

Sorry to move away from the current discussion, but does anyone know if Merseyrail's stock refresh that is due to occur within the next couple of years has been affected by Tory cuts?

There isn't a refresh due.

Do you mean new stock? Lots of dates for that are thrown around but nothing has ever been more than speculation.

[Accura4Matalan]

Yes, I meant new stock sorry. Cheers for the reply.

[Gareth]

I'm sure the lease of the existing stock ends in 2013 or 2014. The trains are mostly doing well for their age but I honestly can't see the lease being extended again, as operational problems will only get worse in the next few years, making any saving on replacement fleet false economy.

Merseyrail is a very individual system and would probably require specially-designed new stock. It'll cost a bit, but I see no shortcuts on this issue.

[jetsetwilly]

Originally Posted by playboy 1981

I would like some info re James Street Station, namely the Eastbound Platform 2 which isn't generally used since the creation of the loop line.

Can anyone tell me:

a) How old the sculltured murals are on the station walls?

b) Is there a preservation order on that platform? Since it is all we have left visible of the original victorian mersey railway underground system, I would hate to ever see it destroyed for the purposes of modernisation should the platform ever come back in to regular use.

Any other info on this platform would be of much interest.

The piece is called Dream Passage, by Tim Chalk and Paul Grime, and was commissioned to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Mersey Railway reaching Liverpool Central in 1992. It's meant to represent the city's subconscious, under the surface, which is why it incorporates various different landmarks in a fractured state.

I wrote about it on my blog last year when the loop was closed and you could have a good look in close up: http://merseytart.blogspot.com/2009/...nderworld.html

(Apologies for the pluggage).

[Mostly Lurking]

Originally Posted by Gareth

I'm sure the lease of the existing stock ends in 2013 or 2014. The trains are mostly doing well for their age but I honestly can't see the lease being extended again, as operational problems will only get worse in the next few years, making any saving on replacement fleet false economy.

Merseyrail is a very individual system and would probably require specially-designed new stock. It'll cost a bit, but I see no shortcuts on this issue.

If a new fleet of trains was to be in operation when the current lease ends, they would have needed to be tendered by now. So extending the lease is the ONLY option - at least for a few years.

[Paul D]

Merseyrail tops national train operators’ reliability chart

Aug 12 2010
MERSEYRAIL topped national performance figures, beating all the UK train companies for punctuality and reliability.

Network Rail data, for the month to July 24, showed that 96.2% of Merseyrail services ran on time, ahead of South West Trains (95.9%) and Arriva Trains Wales (95.8%).

Virgin Trains, which runs the Liverpool to London link, achieved another improvement with 89.1% of services on time compared with 86.4% in the same period last year.

The national average for last month was 92.6%.

Bart Schmeink, Merseyrail's managing director, said: “Merseyrail now consistently has levels of punctuality and reliability that were thought to be impossible to achieve only a few years ago. “Repeating these levels month after month is what passengers expect from us and we are determined to do exactly that.”

Network Rail area manager Wayne Menzies welcomed the news saying: “It takes persistent hard work by both Merseyrail and our own people to be the best in the country.”

[Luke80]

What you have to remember though, is that "on-time" is up to 5 minutes late for suburban and 10 minutes for long distance. That's still late enough to miss a connection.

[Mostly Lurking]

Originally Posted by Luke80

What you have to remember though, is that "on-time" is up to 5 minutes late for suburban and 10 minutes for long distance. That's still late enough to miss a connection.

But it is irrelevant as the same is used for all TOC's, therefore Merseyrail is still top.

[WatcherZero]

Also factor in their longest service is only 53 minutes (others 45 and 34 minutes) and they could be 20%- 40% late and still be on time officially.

[Mostly Lurking]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Also factor in their longest service is only 53 minutes (others 45 and 34 minutes) and they could be 20%- 40% late and still be on time officially.

And on the flipside, they don't have ludicrous recovery time built into the timetables like almost all other TOCs.

[Scousertommy]

Originally Posted by AAA94

i lived in liverpool till i was 15. any real time? i spent too much time in the horrible place.

i do agree that Maglev is a much better idea than HSR, even if a short line between say Manchester and Liverpool is built.

You say you would "hate to live in Liverpool"

and then when questioned you say

"I lived in Liverpool until I was 15"

It doesn't take Einstein to realise that you are nothing but a Billy Bullsh*tter who has never been to Liverpool.


Back away from liars and into the real world and Liverpool Central is finally getting its upgrade. Information (and photos of Liverpool central from years gone by) can be found at www.loveliverpoolcentral.com

[Merseyrail]

Originally Posted by Scousertommy

Back away from liars and into the real world and Liverpool Central is finally getting its upgrade. Information (and photos of Liverpool central from years gone by) can be found at www.loveliverpoolcentral.com

That is more cosmetic, but welcome. The two platforms on the Northern Line needs to be at least 4 platforms, which is major works.

[Paul42]

A load of virtually identical class 313s has been transferred from London Overground to Southern over the last couple of years and nicely refurbished, presumably with a substantial life expectancy. Many more of these are running on the Great Northern City route through the tunnel from Moorgate to Drayton Park, to Welwyn and Hertford, with the same tunnel profile and escape requirements as the Merseyrail 507s (and dual-voltage); and a load more AC units on local routes out of London Liverpool Street. So (a) there is plenty of stock around for spares, and (b) the replacement requirements for both will be virtually identical, so a common build would make sense (!).

[Paul D]

£300m to be spent replacing every Merseyrail train

MORE than £300m is to be spent replacing every single train on the Merseyrail network.

Merseyrail’s fleet of trains is more than 30 years old and reaching the end of its useful life.

Jim Barclay, chief executive of transport authority Merseytravel, today warned that, if the trains are not replaced soon, “the network could start to have serious operational problems”.

Last year, Merseytravel asked train manufacturers for an idea of how much a new fleet of trains would cost.

It is now estimated the cost will be between £300m and £350m, and Merseytravel has asked headhunters Veredus to find a project director.

A leaked Merseytravel report states: “Merseyrail needs a fleet which will meet the current and future needs of passengers, as well as the demands of being operated on the most intensive network in the UK outside London.

“It must also be able to cope with the extreme operating conditions experienced on the network, including a corrosive environment in the underground City Loop section of the network and extremely tight curves, which create excessive wheel wear and wheel/rail interface issues.”

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...#ixzz1ueUPZfaJ

[Tony_H1]

I believe one of the wishes for the new Merseyrail stock is that it can run on both 3rd rail and 25KV Overhead lines much like the stock on the London Overground. Extensions of 3rd rail are now seen as a backwards step by Network rail.

No doubt the future order will be based on the class 378 EMU, I suppose it would have to be numbered 381 as the other numbers are already taken

[makita09]

Originally Posted by Tony_H1

I believe one of the wishes for the new Merseyrail stock is that it can run on both 3rd rail and 25KV Overhead lines much like the stock on the London Overground. Extensions of 3rd rail are now seen as a backwards step by Network rail.

No doubt the future order will be based on the class 378 EMU, I suppose it would have to be numbered 381 as the other numbers are already taken

regulation requires all new dc trains to be ac compatible, although they can omit the pantograph on production, one can be added later et voila. all new dc trains in the uk since 2000 have been produced in this way.

[ill tonkso]

Originally Posted by Paul D

£300m to be spent replacing every Merseyrail train

MORE than £300m is to be spent replacing every single train on the Merseyrail network.

Merseyrail’s fleet of trains is more than 30 years old and reaching the end of its useful life.

Jim Barclay, chief executive of transport authority Merseytravel, today warned that, if the trains are not replaced soon, “the network could start to have serious operational problems”.

Last year, Merseytravel asked train manufacturers for an idea of how much a new fleet of trains would cost.

It is now estimated the cost will be between £300m and £350m, and Merseytravel has asked headhunters Veredus to find a project director.

A leaked Merseytravel report states: “Merseyrail needs a fleet which will meet the current and future needs of passengers, as well as the demands of being operated on the most intensive network in the UK outside London.

“It must also be able to cope with the extreme operating conditions experienced on the network, including a corrosive environment in the underground City Loop section of the network and extremely tight curves, which create excessive wheel wear and wheel/rail interface issues.”

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...#ixzz1ueUPZfaJ

Fantastic News, I imagine it will likely be something like the Desiro City mooted for Thameslink. Good to see Liverpool getting something new and not cascaded.

[WatcherZero]

Mainly as theres nothing off the shelf that would work there, differing shoe arrangement is a minor thing but ive heard the power supply frequencies are also incompatible with the London stock.

[ill tonkso]

Odd question, but do they reverse the stock to even out the wear on each side of the trains on the loop? I imagine this would happen naturally as the 'front' of the train changes each cycle (i.e. New Brighton and back, end A is at the front, though on the second run end B is the front)

[gottago]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Mainly as theres nothing off the shelf that would work there, differing shoe arrangement is a minor thing but ive heard the power supply frequencies are also incompatible with the London stock.

What does that mean for the current rolling stock then? Will they not be able to reused in the UK? Sold off abroad? Scrapped?

(Actually ignore the bit about them being reused in the UK, that obviously won't happen if they'd deemed not good enough for the current system any more!)