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Old February 5th, 2012, 11:53 AM   #1021
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coaches? wouldnt an emu be better?
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Old February 5th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #1022
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Variable gauge motor bogies would me more expensive and difficult to build. Beside that, it is hoped to develop a variant of these boogies with rack wheel to be used to brake the train on steepest sections (but not very soon - until then, and maybe forever, these trains will not run on the rack part of the line).
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Old February 5th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #1023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Changing gauge while moving sure it very cool, and I guess for a route that's not the busiest it makes economic sense not to re-gauge the entire line. Also "Obama City"? sorry I couldn't resist......
Well, looking at the kanjis of the city Obama (小浜) it doesn't feel so strange anymore: the first means little/small and the second beach (or seashore/-coast). Compare to Yokohama (横浜), which has the same second character hama (浜). However, the "h" of hama in Yokohama becomes a "b" in Obama due to an euphonic change of unvocied to voiced sounds which occurs in Japanese, so cold "rendaku".
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Old February 5th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #1024
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very Japanese
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Old February 5th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #1025
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What are the max of tph on a high speed line like the Shinkansen? I see that it have 14 tph at the most and i think is that is the max tph.

I would guess that the length/time of stopping a train is the reduction of tph on line such as Shinkansen?
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Old February 6th, 2012, 09:25 AM   #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerokei View Post
Well, looking at the kanjis of the city Obama (小浜) it doesn't feel so strange anymore: the first means little/small and the second beach (or seashore/-coast). Compare to Yokohama (横浜), which has the same second character hama (浜). However, the "h" of hama in Yokohama becomes a "b" in Obama due to an euphonic change of unvocied to voiced sounds which occurs in Japanese, so cold "rendaku".
Why not 'Yokobama'?
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Old February 6th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #1027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nouveau.ukiyo View Post
Why not 'Yokobama'?
A question like that is a bit like asking an english person "Why do you not pronounce 'Honour' as 'Hon-er' and instead use 'On-er'?"
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Old February 6th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #1028
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Ah yes, Obama City in the Hokuriku area. Maybe Barack should stop by there on his next Japan visit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nouveau.ukiyo View Post
Why not 'Yokobama'?
Haha that was quite funny

On a side note, it kinda reminds of how some Japanese speakers mix the "L" and "R".

Though, in fairness, linguists and linguistic experts have an explanation regarding this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...arning_r_and_l

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Old February 6th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
What are the max of tph on a high speed line like the Shinkansen? I see that it have 14 tph at the most and i think is that is the max tph.

I would guess that the length/time of stopping a train is the reduction of tph on line such as Shinkansen?
Yes, on the Tokaido Shinkansen the typical schedule is 13tph, based on the 9-2-2 service pattern introduced in 2009 (9 Nozomi, 2 Hikari, and 2 Kodama services/hour). Extra trains may add to this, but likely 14 is the limit, for reasons you mentioned.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nouveau.ukiyo View Post
Why not 'Yokobama'?
Haha, I've never thought of that. The answer might lie in the explanations of the rules governing rendaku, but it is also noted that rendaku can be unpredictable. Uncommon or not well-known Japanese names (both family and place) can be difficult to read sometimes as well..

Thinking about it, rendaku feels quite frequent. Some other examples could be
Kawasaki->Miyazaki (same saki meaning cape)
Hiroshima->Miyajima (same shima meaning island)
Ishikawa->Kanagawa (same kawa meaning river)
etc.

Sorry for continuing this off topic conversation.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #1031
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The 20th November last year I attended a special observation tour at Omiya station of the new E6 series.

I thought I would share some pictures.







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Old February 6th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #1032
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Thanks, I've been wanting to post something on that E6 open house for a while now, just haven't gotten around to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
What are the max of tph on a high speed line like the Shinkansen? I see that it have 14 tph at the most and i think is that is the max tph.

I would guess that the length/time of stopping a train is the reduction of tph on line such as Shinkansen?
Tōkaidō and Tōhoku / Yamagata / Akita / Jōetsu / Nagano are both 14 tph peak.

I think I posted something a while ago about why Tōkaidō can't do more... Too lazy to look it up now, but I believe it has to do with the terminal capacity limitations at Tōkyō Station (you've basically got six tracks feeding into two) and the fact that you've also got a lot of trains pulling into and out of the Tōkyō yard, which have to share the segment between Tamachi and Tōkyō with in-service trains. Part of the impetus for opening Shinagawa Station was to allow some trains to terminate there, so that you could actually further increase the total capacity of the line, but JR Central hasn't done anything with this yet.

After that, then I think you've also got the other limitations related to the different service patterns and the lack of platform capacity at some intermediate stations (Atami, for example, doesn't have any passing tracks).

In any event, they are both pretty impressive lines... Tōhoku / Yamagata / Akita / Jōetsu / Nagano probably appeals to railfans more because of the variety of services and the splitting / joining of trains... Lots of interesting stuff, too, like the Gala Yuzawa jogs during the ski season. Tōkaidō is a bit more utilitarian in this regard, although it's hard not to like all 16-car consists.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #1033
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^ How do you define 14 tph for the Tohoku (etc.) part of Tokyo station. The question is due to the fact that most (all?) Akita and Yamagata trains arrives/departs coupled with another train. Do these coupled ones count as one or two?
I wonder this since if there were 14 tph peak (counting coupled ones as one train), then why would the Tokaido part of Tokyo station need 6 tracks compared to the 4 tracks the shared by the other lines, if both have the same number of trains? I mean there would be just as many trains going between the station and the yard on the Tohoku side of the station as the Tokaido one...

Also, zerokei, I love the pictures, have been dying to see more of this train, it looks really great but the colouring of the E5 is a bit better in my eyes.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
The thing that have limited the narrow gauge rail lines to 130 km/h is a law that states that every train must be able to stop within a certain distance (cant remember what, but around 600 meters), and with the technology that were available at the time the law was made they could only stop within designated distance when they were running at a maximum of 130 km/h.
However new technologies have made it possible for trains to stop within the distance from 160 km/h but authorities haven't adapted the law for that.
What about the Narita Sky Access Line? It travels at 160km/h. Then again, that's a standard gauge train, if I'm not mistaken... that SHOULD be traveling at 200km/h...

Is the 130km/h law only applicable for narrow gauge trains?
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Old February 7th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #1035
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Coupled trains are counted as one train, not two.

You can confirm the 14 tph here (Ueno Station, morning rush hour for Tōkyō):
http://www.jreast-timetable.jp/1202/...4/0204060.html

During the 0800 hour:

Red = Tōhoku / Yamagata / Akita Shinkansen
Red = Jōetsu / Nagano Shinkansen

8:03 Nasuno 262 from Nasu–Shiobara (coupled with Komachi unit)
8:07 Max Toki 300 from Niigata (12-car, all double-decker)
8:11 Yamabiko 202 from Sendai (coupled with Komachi unit)
8:15 Max Tanigawa 474 from Takasaki (16-car, all double-decker)
8:19 Asama 504 from Nagano
8:23 Max Nasuno 264 from Nasu–Shiobara (16-car, all double-decker)
8:31 Max Tanigawa 402 from Echigo Yuzawa (16-car, all double-decker)
8:35 Yamabiko 204 from Sendai (coupled with Komachi unit)
8:39 Max Toki 302 from Niigata (12-car, all double-decker)
8:43 Nasuno 266 from Nasu–Shiobara (coupled with 8-car double-decker)
8:47 Asama 506 from Nagano
8:51 Hayate 102 from Morioka (coupled with Komachi unit)
8:55 Max Tanigawa 476 from Takasaki (8-car, all double-decker)
8:59 Yamabiko 206 from Sendai (coupled with Komachi unit)

Regarding why Tōkaidō Shinkansen has 6 tracks and Tōhoku Shinkansen only 4 tracks, that's beyond my knowledge. Probably just has to do with the service patterns and operating style... These are all stub tracks, so there's no place to store trains at the terminal other than at the platforms. Compare departures from Tōkyō Station between Tōhoku Shinkansen and Tōkaidō Shinkansen for the 1900 hour:

Tōhoku Shinkansen
19:00
19:04
19:12
19:16
19:20
19:24
19:28
19:32
19:40
19:44
19:48
19:52
19:56

Tōkaidō Shinkansen
19:00
19:03
19:10
19:13
19:20
19:23
19:26
19:30
19:33
19:37
19:40
19:47
19:50
19:56

One thing that should immediately jump out is how irregular the pattern is for Tōkaidō Shinkansen, while Tōhoku Shinkansen is on-the-dot every four minutes, regardless of the stopping pattern. JR Central, whose schedule prioritizes Nozomi, may require the extra tracks and platform to hold Hikari and Kodama trains longer than they would otherwise need to under a more "egalitarian" operating philosophy. JR East, on the other hand, doesn't put so much emphasis on one stopping pattern, so it probably has a bit more leeway to choose a more uniform train frequency.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #1036
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Makes sense, thanks for that.

Another reason why the Tohoku line only need 4 track is that every train departing stops at Ueno and then you arrive at Omiya where half the trains continue north and the rest goes to Joetsu/Nagano lines, and by judging on your first list, then every other one is a Tohoku and the other ones are other, which means that you have 8 minutes between the train past Omiya. Where as on the Tokaido line all have to line up until you get to Osaka (except for passing stations).

But what to do when they finally open both extensions on the Hokuriku and Hokkaido lines, try to add more platforms at Tokyo stations (on-top maybe or transfer platforms from Tokaido Shinkansen after the Chuo line opens which would reduce the number of trains on the Tokaido line, through-service maybe?) or build the planned line between Omiya and Shinjuku?
There must be some planning being made regarding the future what to do...
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Old February 8th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #1037
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They haven't said anything definitive yet, although I'm sure they're thinking about how to deal with it. In the long term, yeah, it seems they might need to dust off those plans for the Jōetsu Shinkansen's extension to Shinjuku, which will take all the Jōetsu and Nagano / Hokuriku trains off the most crowded section of the Tōhoku Shinkansen.

That being said, in the short term, there is some marginal additional capacity available just by lengthening trains... After all, some of the Hayate and all of the Hayabusa, which are most critical in the extension to Shin-Hakodate and eventually Sapporo as they are the fastest services, are still only 10-car trains and don't do any coupling with Akita Shinkansen trains.

As for Hokuriku, it doesn't seem that they will be doing anything special, at least for the extension to Kanazawa. The current E2s on the Nagano Shinkansen are only 8-car trains, and the E7 series will only be 10 cars. Even once it gets to Ōsaka, they may not need to do much at all, as it's unlikely that people will be taking the Hokuriku Shinkansen to Ōsaka when they can take the much more frequent and faster Tōkaidō Shinkansen and eventually Chūō Shinkansen... Hokuriku Shinkansen really is more for Hokuriku ↔ Tōkyō and Hokuriku ↔ Ōsaka travel than for Ōsaka ↔ Tōkyō through trips.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
That being said, in the short term, there is some marginal additional capacity available just by lengthening trains... After all, some of the Hayate and all of the Hayabusa, which are most critical in the extension to Shin-Hakodate and eventually Sapporo as they are the fastest services, are still only 10-car trains and don't do any coupling with Akita Shinkansen trains.

As for Hokuriku, it doesn't seem that they will be doing anything special, at least for the extension to Kanazawa. The current E2s on the Nagano Shinkansen are only 8-car trains, and the E7 series will only be 10 cars.
It is said that trains of over 8 cars cannot fit on Kyushu Shinkansen past Hakata.

How long trains can fit on Tohoku, Joetsu and Nagano Shinkansens?
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:53 PM   #1039
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The station length is the dependant factor on how long trains are allowed onto each section.

Here is a list (which I think is correct):
400 meters, 16 cars: Tokaido, Sanyo, Tohoku (up to 17 cars with mini-Shinkansen), Joetsu
300 meters, 12 cars: Tohoku (past Morioka), Nagano (Hokuriku)
200 meters, 8 cars: Kyushu

So there is loads of space to run longer trains if needed.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 12:46 AM   #1040
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i guess there are some other reasons for kodama to be shorter. shorter train reduces align time to make a pass for hikari and nozomi.

how long it takes by the way. how long kodama stays on station, waiting for hikari/nozomi?
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