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Old June 7th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #481
Mo Rush
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I dont think necessarily smaller, in fact its not smaller in comparison to sydney or athens. Large aquatic centre,tennis centre, indoor halls, velodrome etc etc
I just think theres a point where new venues arent justifed anymore. The Athens games emphasize the need for legacy thinking from day 1. Even Sydney with most of its venues in good use had issues with 2 or 3 venues.

The IOC venue principle remains the same:
- use existing venues: excel,dome,wembley,wimbledon,eton,wymouth etc etc
- if they dont meet IOC standard's modify them
- if there is no existing venue build a temporary venue if no legacy need exists e.g. basketball, hockey etc.
- if a legacy need exists build a permanent venue that has a legacy: aquatic centre, olympic stadium, handball, bmx, velodrome

Sydney and Atlanta also had a large role in developing the know-how to use or modify existing venus. Both used existing conference and exhbition facilties to the full. Built simple structures or used existing warehouse buildings e.g. Sydney IBC, pavillions for indoor sports and temporary additions to the aquatic and hockey centre etc. etc. Of course not forgetting Atlanta's baseball stadium acting as the olympic stadium.

Where London comes in, is unlike Beijing, its iconic venues are already in place and any extras e.g. zaha's aquatic centre, hopkins velodrome, makes handball arena are added extras. "cost of ambition" as seb coe would put it. London has just learnt the most from past mistakes, and that learning process continues with constant changes to the Olympic park, the tweaking of venue capacities and so forth.

The Olympic project as we've seen from past hosts is not static but constantly changing and modifications are necessary as the budget becomes more detailed and venue plans are analysed further. London IMO has chosen to make pro-active decisions(where possible) rather than reactive decisions that many previous hosts have had to make.

Empty venues in Athens remain behind as a constant reminder that it takes a lot of hard work to get it right.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7436166.stm
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Old June 8th, 2008, 02:44 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
I
Empty venues in Athens remain behind as a constant reminder that it takes a lot of hard work to get it right.
Not so empty..Athens sold as much tickets as Barcelona did...
Especially if u think that was the first Games after 11/2001, the Games of the smallest country that ever organized an olympics and the Games that the big majority aglosaxons media discouraged the people to be there (I still remmeber the "sorry Athens, we were wrong" of the british and americans media the day after the closing ceremony)

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Old June 8th, 2008, 03:22 AM   #483
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Not so empty..Athens sold as much tickets as Barcelona did...
Especially if u think that was the first Games after 11/2001, the Games of the smallest country that ever organized an olympics and the Games that the big majority aglosaxons media discouraged the people to be there (I still remmeber the "sorry Athens, we were wrong" of the british and americans media the day after the closing ceremony)
I think we're on a different wavelength.
Im talking about venues that until today remain empty...as in not used. Unless BBC is making up that entire news report.

Im not arguing the success of the games, rather how important it is to have a plan years ahead of the time even if its not a popular move.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #484
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Bridge.

From London 2012 News.

Foundation work underway on Park bridge 24 June 2008.



Work has begun on the foundations on one of the 30 bridges being built across the Olympic Park.

This new permanent bridge will span Carpenters Road, creating an important link for construction traffic between the north and south of the site. The bridge will then become an important part of the main pedestrian walkway through the middle of the Park, both during and after the Games.

Around 290 cubic metres of concrete has been poured to create the foundations structure that will support either end of the bridge. Once this initial foundation work is complete 23 metre-long steel beams will be lifted into place to form the deck of the bridge, which will be ready for use from November 2008.

Work will start later this summer on the huge land bridge that will be the gateway to the Games, taking people from Stratford International and Stratford Regional Stations into the Olympic Park. This land-bridge will also form part of the roof of the Aquatics Centre.

ODA Director of Infrastructure and Utilities Simon Wright said: ‘Building new bridges and roads is a crucial element across the lifespan of the project, from creating new links across the site for construction activity, to delivering an open and accessible Park during the Games, and forming new links between local communities in legacy.’

I hope all these bridge aren't all flat concrete box girder construction.
It would be nice to see a few suspension or bow string bridges like the one in Shoreditch to break it up a bit and stop it looking like a motorway junction.

I know CABE had some concerns does anyone know what these bridges are going to look like?
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Old June 25th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #485
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well said ^__^, but the design could be more engaging without being expensive it takes a lot of creativity for that to happen..
my point is why does it have too look very ordinary...that fits the stereotype when the engineer designs without the architect(my professor said pertaining to hard,stiff, ordinary, basic looking structures)
Exactly! It is wrong to assume that creative design should come at a price.

Okay, we all get the sustainable aspect of the London stadium, but take that away and what do we have? I'm sorry, but using that excuse as a smoke screen to hide the deficiencies of the design is just crap. Contrary to what the committee are saying, for what it is, we are certainly not getting value for money...

Another glaring error in the whole procurement process was that the stadium design did NOT go to competition!!! It was all done by committee! That, in this day and age and for such a prestigious and important project just beggars belief.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 04:36 PM   #486
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Exactly! It is wrong to assume that creative design should come at a price.

Okay, we all get the sustainable aspect of the London stadium, but take that away and what do we have? I'm sorry, but using that excuse as a smoke screen to hide the deficiencies of the design is just crap. Contrary to what the committee are saying, for what it is, we are certainly not getting value for money...

Another glaring error in the whole procurement process was that the stadium design did NOT go to competition!!! It was all done by committee! That, in this day and age and for such a prestigious and important project just beggars belief.
true. these points have all been discussed already though.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #487
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Exactly! It is wrong to assume that creative design should come at a price.

Okay, we all get the sustainable aspect of the London stadium, but take that away and what do we have? I'm sorry, but using that excuse as a smoke screen to hide the deficiencies of the design is just crap. Contrary to what the committee are saying, for what it is, we are certainly not getting value for money...

Another glaring error in the whole procurement process was that the stadium design did NOT go to competition!!! It was all done by committee! That, in this day and age and for such a prestigious and important project just beggars belief.
I was under the impression that it did go out to competition but only HOK met the ODA's requirements. That's hardly the ODA's fault.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #488
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June 2008 photos up on the ODA website:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:29 PM   #489
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I was under the impression that it did go out to competition but only HOK met the ODA's requirements. That's hardly the ODA's fault.
HOK was selected by the ODA, but not by competition. Anyway, it's just not feasible for architects to completely disregard requirements of the brief, especially if they're going out to competitive tender!

Say a few requirement were overlooked, schemes can be modified, it makes no sense that the ODA would be so stringent to the extent of being over-zealous!

Now if they were that stringent, and only one practice complied fully, the ODA would be incredibly stupid to select this practice based on that criteria (i.e. full compliance of requirements)!!! Normal practice would warrant a revision of all schemes or a new competition.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:29 PM   #490
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Aeriel photos of the Olympics will be awesome, and I'm reminded how much greenery there is.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #491
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was there an international design competition for the olympic stadium?

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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:41 PM   #492
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was there an internation design competition for the olympic stadium?
I don't think time permitted it.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #493
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that is one fatal error imo
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #494
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that is one fatal error imo
Well I doubt the ODA could exactly postpone the Olympics so they could have time to hold an international competition.

Let's face it, HOK Sport have a trusted record of building good quality successful stadiums on time, which was probably the overriding factor why the ODA chose them, I expect more so than its design.

You only have to look at the issues surrounding the Aquatic centre to show how international competitions aren't always the optimum way of getting a design that fits every criteria that the ODA want. There's going to be change substantial changes along the way, and with Hadid's design at least they had time to make them. HOK haven't got that luxury and had to get the plans finalised pretty much as soon as they were given the brief by the ODA. That's how quick things need to be to get everything finished for 2011.

Seeing as how this stadium, with minimal steel and basic facilities, has blown the budget in this time of financial uncertainty, I dread to think how much the steel would cost for a more flamboyant design via an international competition.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #495
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this olympic park will be so much better than beijing 2008. everything is very grid like around the olympic green. london 2012's park would have a more urban park feel, with venues integrated into the landscape.

As for the Olympic stadium, I wouldn't call that minimum use of steel.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:56 PM   #496
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Well I doubt the ODA could exactly postpone the Olympics so they could have time to hold an international competition.

Let's face it, HOK Sport have a trusted record of building good quality successful stadiums on time, which was probably the overriding factor why the ODA chose them, I expect more so than its design.

You only have to look at the issues surrounding the Aquatic centre to show how international competitions aren't always the optimum way of getting a design that fits every criteria that the ODA want. There's going to be change substantial changes along the way, and with Hadid's design at least they had time to make them. HOK haven't got that luxury and had to get the plans finalised pretty much as soon as they were given the brief by the ODA. That's how quick things need to be to get everything finished for 2011.

Seeing as how this stadium, with minimal steel and basic facilities, has blown the budget in this time of financial uncertainty, I dread to think how much the steel would cost for a more flamboyant design via an international competition.
To be honest, not going out to competition is a BIG mistake, regardless of economic climate. You can still have a more adventurous and flamboyant design and still come on budget and on time. The proof is out there!

The problem is this country. Everything always seems to sink into a quagmire of mis-management, spiralling costs and delays. It's just so depressing. Anyway, every country who is awarded the Olympics has the same amount of time to prepare and construct their venues. London has considerably less new-build projects than a lot of past Olympics. They have enough time, it's just that they are not using it wisely...
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:00 PM   #497
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As for the Olympic stadium, I wouldn't call that minimum use of steel.
I wouldn't either. To say it's sustainable is pushing it too far. The whole ethos of the London Games is based on this concept - If they were serious about it, they should have considered Wembley as the main venue.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:02 PM   #498
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The stadium, and the rest of the Olympic park, is absolutely fine. Why don't people realise the message of the London Olympics is sustainability and redevelopment, not showing off.

We have got one stunning stadium, and we simply don't need another.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:08 PM   #499
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To be honest, not going out to competition is a BIG mistake, regardless of economic climate. You can still have a more adventurous and flamboyant design and still come on budget and on time. The proof is out there!
design and build competition then? or perhaps a design concept competition like the velodrome and other venues, allowing the actual architects to revise the design once chosen.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #500
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It uses less steel than any other stadium of this size. It's about as economical as you can get in terms of the use of steel.
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