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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #501
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It uses less steel than any other stadium of this size. It's about as economical as you can get in terms of the use of steel.
I disagree. Steel around the facade and steel around the roof edge.
Steel supporting the temporary seats.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:54 PM   #502
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June 2008 photos up on the ODA website:
image hosted on flickr
so the buildung site is very huge but I see it is not too far from City.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #503
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It uses less steel than any other stadium of this size. It's about as economical as you can get in terms of the use of steel.
And they want to even reduce that amount further.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #504
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so the buildung site is very huge but I see it is not too far from City.
Well that's Canary Wharf in the background, the City is a couple of miles to the west. The Park is seven minutes away from the centre of London by the new high speed rail link from Stratford International to St Pancras International which most people will use during the Games.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #505
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And they want to even reduce that amount further.
concrete columns and a fabric roof using more cables and less steel.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 02:12 AM   #506
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Well I doubt the ODA could exactly postpone the Olympics so they could have time to hold an international competition.

Let's face it, HOK Sport have a trusted record of building good quality successful stadiums on time, which was probably the overriding factor why the ODA chose them, I expect more so than its design.

You only have to look at the issues surrounding the Aquatic centre to show how international competitions aren't always the optimum way of getting a design that fits every criteria that the ODA want. There's going to be change substantial changes along the way, and with Hadid's design at least they had time to make them. HOK haven't got that luxury and had to get the plans finalised pretty much as soon as they were given the brief by the ODA. That's how quick things need to be to get everything finished for 2011.

Seeing as how this stadium, with minimal steel and basic facilities, has blown the budget in this time of financial uncertainty, I dread to think how much the steel would cost for a more flamboyant design via an international competition.
they had more time than we think they did. if we compare london 2012 preperations to beijing 2008's, you will see that they had around the same time.

Beijing 2008

announced - 13th July 2001
taking place - from 8th August 2008
difference - 7 years 26 days

London 2012

announced - 6th July 2005
taking place - from 27th July 2012
difference - 7 years 21 days

lets face it, china were more time efficient! (or is it cuz they had 5 more days)
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Old July 18th, 2008, 11:56 AM   #507
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lets face it, china were more time efficient! (or is it cuz they had 5 more days)
Or possibly because London needs longer to build their stadium seeing as they have stricter safety laws and can't work on site 24 hours.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #508
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Yeh, consider the working conditions in China compared to those in the West and you start to understand why China can build what they can, at the price they can, in the time they can.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 01:55 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by zee View Post
they had more time than we think they did. if we compare london 2012 preperations to beijing 2008's, you will see that they had around the same time.

Beijing 2008

announced - 13th July 2001
taking place - from 8th August 2008
difference - 7 years 26 days

London 2012

announced - 6th July 2005
taking place - from 27th July 2012
difference - 7 years 21 days

lets face it, china were more time efficient! (or is it cuz they had 5 more days)
and beijing only finished its olympic stadium 4months before the opening. I don't think thats ideal.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:31 PM   #510
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Or possibly because London needs longer to build their stadium seeing as they have stricter safety laws and can't work on site 24 hours.
'Stricter' ??? That is an understatement.

It's fine to have safety laws, but when it goes to the excess we have in this country, it's just simply too much. Our Health and Safety/CDM laws are just a minefield! There is just too much management and unneccessary job creation that is rife in this and other UK industries. We'll end up as a 'Service' economy, as we can't seem to sustain any form of manufacturing industry.

To cite a flawed assumption that Chinese contractors are somehow less stringent and cavalier with their work practice is insulting and incorrect. The olympic stadium contractor is not some cowboy builder off the street like you would get in the UK! These contractors were chosen by competitive tender, part of their tender package would demonstrate work procedure, Health and Safety/CDM etc. The whole build is an international collaboration from the architects, structural engineers, main contractor and sub-contractors.

4 years is enough time to hold a competition, go out to competitive tender, construction, commissioning and testing.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #511
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Looking at those pictures, only now do I really understand the scale of the Olympic Park, its huge!!
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Old July 18th, 2008, 07:25 PM   #512
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'Stricter' ??? That is an understatement.

It's fine to have safety laws, but when it goes to the excess we have in this country, it's just simply too much. Our Health and Safety/CDM laws are just a minefield! There is just too much management and unneccessary job creation that is rife in this and other UK industries. We'll end up as a 'Service' economy, as we can't seem to sustain any form of manufacturing industry.

To cite a flawed assumption that Chinese contractors are somehow less stringent and cavalier with their work practice is insulting and incorrect. The olympic stadium contractor is not some cowboy builder off the street like you would get in the UK! These contractors were chosen by competitive tender, part of their tender package would demonstrate work procedure, Health and Safety/CDM etc. The whole build is an international collaboration from the architects, structural engineers, main contractor and sub-contractors.

4 years is enough time to hold a competition, go out to competitive tender, construction, commissioning and testing.
Oh please, dont compare a communist dictatorship's way of doing things with ours.

In China whole communities were bulldozed of the sites needed for construction with no say or right of appeal and were given only nominal compensation.

And just about all of the building contracts were obtained through bribes and government officials lining their own pockets. And whilst safety procedures have improved in China recently, they still have general work practices that we left behind in the Victorian age.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 07:58 PM   #513
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Oh please, dont compare a communist dictatorship's way of doing things with ours.

In China whole communities were bulldozed of the sites needed for construction with no say or right of appeal and were given only nominal compensation.

And just about all of the building contracts were obtained through bribes and government officials lining their own pockets. And whilst safety procedures have improved in China recently, they still have general work practices that we left behind in the Victorian age.

Any proof for what you stated?

Nevermind, as long as you feel good and superior to "them".
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Old July 18th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #514
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4 years is enough time to hold a competition, go out to competitive tender, construction, commissioning and testing.

4 years is enough for a permanent stadium too. Something we're trying to pull off in Cape Town, even with all the legal and "environmental" issues we had. Not forgetting the nimby's.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #515
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4 years is enough for a permanent stadium too. Something we're trying to pull off in Cape Town, even with all the legal and "environmental" issues we had. Not forgetting the nimby's.
yes. i highly agree with you and UKresident by saying 4 years is more than enough. we have had 7 years to prepare for the olympics. wat the hell have we been doing for the past 3 years?
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Old July 18th, 2008, 09:07 PM   #516
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You denigrate the hard work done by many. People are not sitting on their arses with this you know.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 12:33 AM   #517
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wat the hell have we been doing for the past 3 years?
That takes the piss. If you look at those photos I posted and still wonder what's been happening then you're beyond help.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 01:52 AM   #518
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That takes the piss. If you look at those photos I posted and still wonder what's been happening then you're beyond help.
i didnt mean in that way. when you consider that it can take arguably 4 years to complete, and we have reached the construction stage, then i think the past 3 years was more than enough time to conduct an international design competition

when you look at it in this context, then imo, the past 3 years a waste! u get me?
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Old July 19th, 2008, 04:36 PM   #519
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bla bla bla.
look. its done. this stadium is getting built. DEAL WITH IT.

why are people so pessimistic about london hosting the olympics, everything so far has been shown in a bad light. the beijing stadium is THE national stadium of china, of course its going to be huge and look amazing, this stadium, however, isnt the national stadium nor is it fully permanent. what would be the point in building a magnificent stadium for a couple of weeks use?
i think this design is relevant for the games and for its use later on after 2012, it is also practical and very sustainable. one of the main points of the london games is to show the world that huge events like the olympics can be carbon friendly and sustainable. and hopefully set an example for the future.

thats my opinion
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Old July 19th, 2008, 07:12 PM   #520
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bla bla bla.
look. its done. this stadium is getting built. DEAL WITH IT.

why are people so pessimistic about london hosting the olympics, everything so far has been shown in a bad light. the beijing stadium is THE national stadium of china, of course its going to be huge and look amazing, this stadium, however, isnt the national stadium nor is it fully permanent. what would be the point in building a magnificent stadium for a couple of weeks use?
i think this design is relevant for the games and for its use later on after 2012, it is also practical and very sustainable. one of the main points of the london games is to show the world that huge events like the olympics can be carbon friendly and sustainable. and hopefully set an example for the future.

thats my opinion
I don't think people are questioning the design concept i.e. temporary seats etc. Its just not the best design architecturally for the price or the concept. That however has nothing to do with London's ability to deliver the Games and IMO go on to host the best games ever. Some people however link the fact that its not the best temporary design to London's ability to host the Games.
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