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Old July 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM   #521
UK Resident
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Originally Posted by CrazyMac View Post
Oh please, dont compare a communist dictatorship's way of doing things with ours.
What makes you think our so-called democratic approach is superior to the Chinese Communist system? Democracy is not the be all and end all is it? It's obvious your knowledge of the current Chinese system is incomplete!

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In China whole communities were bulldozed of the sites needed for construction with no say or right of appeal and were given only nominal compensation.
All conjecture and hearsay. Give me the proof.

Quote:
And just about all of the building contracts were obtained through bribes and government officials lining their own pockets.
So this is a fact is it? Again, all conjecture. If China wasn't mentioned with this comment, I would have assumed you were talking about our rotten, shameless government. Our whole system is rife with this cancer. Given that we are in or approaching a reccession, it's comforting that our Government have decided for themselves to retain the so-called 'John Lewis List' for their second homes and having a wonderful 70 days leave per annum.

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And whilst safety procedures have improved in China recently, they still have general work practices that we left behind in the Victorian age.
Really? I didn't know you were an architect working in Beijing. Your false sense of superiority is becoming unbearable now.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 03:50 PM   #522
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i didnt mean in that way. when you consider that it can take arguably 4 years to complete, and we have reached the construction stage, then i think the past 3 years was more than enough time to conduct an international design competition

when you look at it in this context, then imo, the past 3 years a waste! u get me?
Exactly.

But you have to realise this is common in the UK now. Unfortunately, a lot of things are tied down by reams of 'red tape'... All very unneccessary...
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:02 PM   #523
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I remember back in the late 90's in Australia when Home Bush looked like this, everyone was always talking about the designs and wanting it differently, look how good the Sydney Olympics turned out... The same will be for London, this is going to be truly AMAZING! Cant wait! (cant also wait for Beijing either hahaha)!
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:56 PM   #524
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I dont understand how people can think that we have enough time to have this competiton to design the stadium, then just slap it down in 4 years.

Surely preperation work for each statium would be unique, this preperation i would assume, takes years. So we would have had to have this competition long before constuction started on the stadium, and before preperation on the stadium started.

Correct me if im wrong, but this would indeed take up time that is not available.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 07:19 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by fishcatdogbird View Post
I remember back in the late 90's in Australia when Home Bush looked like this, everyone was always talking about the designs and wanting it differently, look how good the Sydney Olympics turned out... The same will be for London, this is going to be truly AMAZING! Cant wait! (cant also wait for Beijing either hahaha)!
i agree.

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I dont understand how people can think that we have enough time to have this competiton to design the stadium, then just slap it down in 4 years.

Surely preperation work for each statium would be unique, this preperation i would assume, takes years. So we would have had to have this competition long before constuction started on the stadium, and before preperation on the stadium started.

Correct me if im wrong, but this would indeed take up time that is not available.
exactly!
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 01:13 AM   #526
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excuse! excuse! excuse! I am sorry...but it just funny some dumb ass agree on dumb excuse...LOL!
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 04:44 AM   #527
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Now try that in English.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 06:30 AM   #528
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I am sorry, you are not dumb.

You just retarded who can't read. and please let me spell it for you, it is f-u-c-k-y-o-u-n-i-g-g-e-r-!
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 10:29 AM   #529
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Well, never seen you here before - hopefully won't see you again. You've been reported.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 02:27 PM   #530
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anyone doubt the completion of this whole project by 2012?
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 02:33 PM   #531
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anyone doubt the completion of this whole project by 2012?
No way, it will be fine and anyway it is WAY WAY WAY too early to be able to conclude if it will run late, at this stage its running ahead of schedule...

People are so pessimistic its unbelievable... you know if you talk it down enough it may work... lol
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 03:04 PM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMac View Post
Oh please, dont compare a communist dictatorship's way of doing things with ours.

In China whole communities were bulldozed of the sites needed for construction with no say or right of appeal and were given only nominal compensation.

And just about all of the building contracts were obtained through bribes and government officials lining their own pockets. And whilst safety procedures have improved in China recently, they still have general work practices that we left behind in the Victorian age.

What U say is just plain condescending. Do U even have any prove that the Olympic Park building contracts is tainted with corruption?

I sincerely hope that your view does not represent the mindset of the british people.

Otherwise, awarding Olympic to London is just one big mistake.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 03:10 PM   #533
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I dont understand how people can think that we have enough time to have this competiton to design the stadium, then just slap it down in 4 years.
4 years is adequate time (in terms of the UK). Majority of countries would need considerably less time - that's how much we are bogged down in bureaucracy.

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Originally Posted by tuten View Post
Surely preperation work for each statium would be unique, this preperation i would assume, takes years. So we would have had to have this competition long before constuction started on the stadium, and before preperation on the stadium started.
Of course!

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Originally Posted by tuten View Post
Correct me if im wrong, but this would indeed take up time that is not available.
What are you talking about? - 4 years is enough from conception to completion for a stadium! Yes! that includes the competition process, selecting the architect, planning and building regulations and competitive tendering!

What I cannot believe is that you think the competition process is irrelevant and can easily be ommitted!!! It is standard procedure for all large schemes and important public buildings to go to competition! The fact that the main stadium didn't, is bizarre. Hence there is a lot of negative criticism. The aquatics centre did (Zaha Hadid's scheme was chosen) so I don't see why the main stadium didn't!

Anyway we've had just over 7 years (not 4 years) since London was announced as the host city!!!

AND JAK3M, do you know what you are agreeing to? Or did you not read Tuten's post.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 03:21 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by lesart View Post

What U say is just plain condescending. Do U even have any prove that the Olympic Park building contracts is tainted with corruption?

I sincerely hope that your view does not represent the mindset of the british people.

Otherwise, awarding Olympic to London is just one big mistake.
Unfortunately, a lot of my countrymen are intolerant to foreigners. Just listening to them at my workplace after they've hung up on a call centre based in India is really bad. The comments are awful. It makes no difference whether the caller has an excellent understanding of english or not, as soon as they hear the accent a barrier comes up and considerable intolerance rears it's ugly head. Need I mention the current intolerance to migrant workers?
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 04:16 PM   #535
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How have we had 7 years? London wasnt given the games in 2001.

And i dont think you understand what i mean, im not saying that 4 years isnt enough time to build a stadium, but it isnt enough time to hold a competition, wait for the outcome, then begin preperation for whichever design won, then build the stadium.
Anyway, the design on the current stadium wasnt just thought up quickly, it's a part of a greater design for the whole park and the point of the design is to make it easy to take half of it away once the olypics are finished. What would be the point of designing a stunning stadium, only to have hlaf of it taken down after two weeks.

We have our national staduim, and design isnt everything.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 08:24 PM   #536
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How many stadiums now in London?About 30?
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 08:43 PM   #537
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Tuten, theres nothing wrong in building a fantastic stadium even when it is going to be taken down after. its a matter of building an efficient design. the current olympic stadium is effecient but just not as stunning as people would want to be when showcasing london on a global scale!

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Anyway we've had just over 7 years (not 4 years) since London was announced as the host city!!!
london was announced in july 2005
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 10:09 PM   #538
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In China whole communities were bulldozed of the sites needed for construction with no say or right of appeal and were given only nominal compensation.

All conjecture and hearsay. Give me the proof.
The human cost of the Games: Standing up to the Beijing bulldozers

The floor needs sweeping, there is a pile of papers by the rice cooker and dusty boxes are lined up by a table that holds the flour needed to make Beijing speciality dumplings, jiaozi. Sun Ruoyu apologises for the state of her restaurant in the Chinese capital's historic Qianmen district but explains how she was forced to close rather hurriedly to stop the wrecking ball from claiming her livelihood.

A Beijing-born Australian citizen, she is fighting to save the restaurant her family has run for 160 years from being knocked down to make way for the Olympics marathon route. Much of the surrounding area, once a bustling mix of ancient Mongol, Manchu and Han architecture, has been flattened and her restaurant stands out starkly as the only building left on what used to be a busy commercial district just south of Tiananmen Square.

"I'm so sorry, it's normally much nicer than this. But we got the notice 10 days' ago that they want to knock it down anytime after the following Monday, so we haven't been operating lately,"

....

"They are trying to rob us. The police come many times and advise us to take the money and go. They say if we don't go that hundreds of workers will come and knock it down by force," she said.

....

The Geneva-based Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions reckons 1.5 million people will have been relocated for Olympics- related projects. Government estimates put the figure at just over 6,000.

And it goes on
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...rs-461349.html

Quote:
And whilst safety procedures have improved in China recently, they still have general work practices that we left behind in the Victorian age.

Really? I didn't know you were an architect working in Beijing. Your false sense of superiority is becoming unbearable now.
Beijing labourers dying in race for Olympic deadline

Labourers from poor rural areas of China, some in their teens and often lacking the most basic safety equipment, are working seven-day weeks for less than £20 to complete the facilities for next year's Beijing Olympics, an Independent on Sunday investigation has revealed.

Six workers were killed late last month on an Olympics project, the construction of a subway tunnel. The state-owned company carrying out the project was accused of a cover-up after the six were buried in a partial collapse of the tunnel, waiting eight hours to report the accident while carrying out its own rescue attempt.

According to the Beijing Times, supervisors took away workers' mobile phones to prevent word leaking out. The first the authorities learned of the accident was when a worker from nearby Henan province secretly called police in his home town, and they relayed the information to Beijing.

Many of the 2,000 workers building the National Stadium, the centrepiece of the Olympics site, are also from poverty-stricken Henan, where £70 a month sounds like a good wage to subsistence farmers, even though it is below the legal minimum in the capital. To earn even that much and meet the tight construction deadlines, however, they have to forgo their one day off a week.

"I work 12 hours a day, six days a week," said Junle (not his real name), a 51-year-old crane driver. For this he earns 50 yuan (£3.27) a day, but 8 yuan is deducted for food from the canteen. He is one of 8,000 labourers who have been working for over three years on the stadium and the other main buildings on the Olympics site in north Beijing: the Olympic village, the media centre, the gymnasium and the huge Olympic pool, all of it hidden behind thick blue fences.

Junle and other ordinary workers are housed just outside the site in office buildings transformed into dormitories. Conditions for foremen and the multitude of grey-uniformed guards employed to keep strangers away are scarcely less spartan. They live 12 to a room in unheated white prefabricated buildings, with no running water.

And it goes on
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ne-444769.html


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His sense of superiority may be unbearable, but it is well-founded.

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Old July 23rd, 2008, 12:04 AM   #539
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london was announced in july 2005
yes but surely he meant 7 years since the announcement until the start of the games, which I agree is ample time to incorporate a design competition
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Old July 23rd, 2008, 12:14 AM   #540
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yes but surely he meant 7 years since the announcement until the start of the games, which I agree is ample time to incorporate a design competition
They want it completed in summer 2011. The final design was announced in 2007, which had taken eighteen months from HOK being comissioned to plans finalised. The bid was only won six months before that; I doubt there was time to launch an international competition that would come up with a working design and detailed plans within eighteen months. HOK are the stadium experts, they know what can and can't be built in the timescale the ODA want. The stadium will do its job, afterall, it's being designed by people who know all about the needs of an Olympic Games.

Last edited by DarJoLe; July 23rd, 2008 at 12:19 AM.
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