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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #621
Sexas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
Sexas--- what do we have here?

Exhibit A -- Atlanta 1996. The stadium pictured at the top (white roof) is Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium, built in 1966 and demolished after the 1996 Olympics (it hosted the baseball events). Reason? The stadium bellow Atlanta Olympic Stadium, was downsized after the Olympics (temp. seating, sound familier?) and converted into a baseball stadium. WHY COULD NOT ATLANTA JUST HAVE TWO BIG BASEBALL STADIUMS??? DEY DIDN"T MANAGEMENT PROPER!!!!111??
Thank you for point it out.
No! I don't think they managing it properly, I think they can easily give the old one to the local Universities to use, who don't have stadium, but I think they build the new one over a parking lot...so they need the space back for parking lot. But the point from this is, you can do more things with a 80K stadium, it can be profitable stadium if LOCOG and the city of London managing it well, tear it down or down-sizing isn't the only option...you guys just let LOCOG go for the easy way. Look at Houston! they build the new NFL stadium right next to the old one and they both still in use.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #622
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from Telegraph

On track

On track: Olympic Delivery Authority Chairman John Armitt believes that progress toward London 2012is going according to plan .

With Beijing due to start in a matter of days, and yesterday marking four years to go until our own London 2012 opening ceremony, these latest photos of the Olympic Park show that progress so far is on track.

We have hit our milestones in virtually every regard, and in some cases exceeded them thanks to the hard work of the team on site.

Over the last year the site has changed beyond all recognition – 190 buildings have been demolished, one million tons of earth excavated, soil cleaned of decades of contamination and two 6km tunnels to take power lines underground completed .

Building work has begun in earnest, with construction starting early on the main stadium and the aquatics centre. Construction of the Olympic Village is also under way. There are now more than 2,500 people working on the park.

Exciting new venue designs are in place, and the building of new infrastructure and utilities for the Games and their legacy has begun. These developments will serve the community in the area long after 2012. In fact, 75p of every pound we are spending is going on the long-term regeneration of the area.

We are now setting out 10 new milestones that we plan to achieve in the 'Big Build: Foundations' phase by 27 July 2009 – three years to the day from the opening ceremony. It is important we are transparent and accountable for the significant public investment in the project.

Milestones include putting in place the foundations of the main venues and infrastructure, starting work on the velodrome and the huge media centre and completing works for the sailing events at Weymouth and Portland.

Clearly, this is a very challenging economic environment and the project is not immune from the pressures this brings. However, I am confident we have established solid foundations as we enter the next phase.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 08:45 PM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexas View Post
Alphaville I am not use your own word to attack you, but just like what you say: this is what urban planning all about, a real ability to think what will be good for the city 20, 30, 50 or even 100 years down the road. It is a theory, it is unknown to everyone. why LOCOG's one is all good and others is all bad? Sustainability is stand for so many things, not to build something and tear it down also can be sustainabilty too, how about not to build it at all and just use the stadium London already got and just build a better subway!! If LOCOG can do that "now they start thinking!" Inability for you can't see a better picture other than LOCOG's one is a sad thing.
It's called balance. I just like the fact that you seem to think you know better than the 2012 masterplanners (who have examined everything from stadium design to appropraite foliage for the site) and the Londoners on these forums on the one hand and then go on to use terms like "London's Eastside" and claim that we have trouble filling Wembley on the other.

Do you see why we have trouble taking your proposals seriously?

We have people who know the city and its sporting culture back to front saying what LOCOG and the ODA is doing is sensible and then you, who shows a general lack of knowledge about the city, who says what they're doing is wrong. Who should someone who's just logged on to this thread to find out about London's prgoress take more seriously? That's a toughy!!

And please don't take that as an "attack". What I've said is evident from reading the last three pages of this thread.

Last edited by RobH; July 28th, 2008 at 09:43 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 09:38 PM   #624
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what'd hell is Yudo? Is he related to Yoda?
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Old July 28th, 2008, 10:05 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by london lad View Post
what'd hell is Yudo? Is he related to Yoda?
Chinese and Japanese call it Yudo and Korean call it Judo is meaning "gentle way". base from wiki it is a modern Japanese martial art and combat sport, that originated in Japan in the late nineteenth century. Its most prominent feature is its competitive element, where the object is to either throw one's opponent to the ground, immobilize or otherwise subdue one's opponent with a grappling maneuver, or force an opponent to submit by joint locking the elbow or by applying a choke. Strikes and thrusts...

we do need to promote sport other than football in London...
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Old July 28th, 2008, 10:17 PM   #626
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Quote:
we do need to promote sport other than football in London...
http://www.visitlondon.com/attractio...rting-calendar

Ever heard of Lords, Wimbledon, the Oval, Twickenham, Queen's Club, The O2, Ascot, Brands Hatch etc etc.

You were saying? Yes, there's always room for improvement but I doubt there are many cities in the world with as good a sporting culture as London nor with as many iconic venues many of which are considered the "home" of their respective sports.

It's exactly comments like that which validate my point. You have no qualification whatsoever to comment on what London needs from the Olympics since you seem to know so little about the city itself.

Last edited by RobH; July 28th, 2008 at 10:23 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 10:22 PM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
It's called balance. I just like the fact that you seem to think you know better than the 2012 masterplanners (who have examined everything from stadium design to appropraite foliage for the site) and the Londoners on these forums on the one hand and then go on to use terms like "London's Eastside" and claim that we have trouble filling Wembley on the other.
Thank you for your reply, and please don't put word in my month. I am the only one keep saying London will have NO problem fill up any stadium, even a new 80K seats Olympic stadium, it is all about get more new show, sport and event to London area!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
We have people who know the city and its sporting culture back to front saying what LOCOG and the ODA is doing is sensible and then you, who shows a general lack of knowledge about the city, who says what they're doing is wrong. Who should someone who's just logged on to this thread to find out about London's prgoress take more seriously? That's a toughy!!
I didn't say they doing wrong, but they are not doing the best. Do you want the London Olympic legacy just all about sustainability and profitability with a big nice park?? it is lack of a real promise to our youth - What London Olympic really can do to our youth? I don't want empty promise and we all know big park can't promote sport isn't it? also it can't be just a catchy (bad) logo.

And RobH I don't think you attacking me, and as you can see I reply each one of the post logically unlike most people here.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 10:27 PM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexas View Post
Thank you for your reply, and please don't put word in my month. I am the only one keep saying London will have NO problem fill up any stadium, even a new 80K seats Olympic stadium, it is all about get more new show, sport and event to London area!!
Post no. 608 you said:

If they already have problem fill up the Wembley and Crystal Palace, maybe the problem is at the city of London

And people have quite rightly pointed out we don't have problems filling these stadia but we would if we built another 80,000 seater.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 10:40 PM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Post no. 608 you said:

If they already have problem fill up the Wembley and Crystal Palace, maybe the problem is at the city of London

And people have quite rightly pointed out we don't have problems filling these stadia but we would if we built another 80,000 seater.
Please quote the whole post: it is a reply to DerJoLe's post:

... In American most big University stadium capacity is well over 80K and they fill it up all the time. Why don't promote NFL in London? Why don't promote NLB?
I am the only one here believe in London can handle a 80K seating stadium

Again by promising promote NFL, NLB, NBA or other type of sport after the game will be a welcoming sign what London can do to boarder it's youth sport program. London may not need a 80K stadium tomorrow but by good managment and good promotion, I can see Londoner go watch a London own NBA game or NLB game in huge number.

And that's my problem with LOCOG, because they can't see it!!!!
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Last edited by Sexas; July 28th, 2008 at 10:49 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 10:52 PM   #630
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Sorry, I didn't realise the context. Even if they promoted these sports, they'd still reach nowhere near the crowd levels you're advocating. A one off event at Wembley between two teams like the Giants and the Dolphins might sell out now and again, but week in week out watching British American football teams? You'd be lucky to get 20,000 even with all the promotion in the world. These sports have no part in our culture (or very little) and trying to force them into our culture because we have a large stadium we don't know what to do with is ludicrous. Most Brits couldn't follow a game of American football even if they tried (I have and I couldn't); how do you expect to go from a base of virtually zero understanding to justifying an 80k seat stadium??

Could you imagine the response of the public and our papers if we kept an 80,000 seat stadium with all the costs that incurs and the ODA turned round and said "it's fine, we're going to use if for American football which we'll promote vigorously in 2013." They'd be laughed out the building.

If you think London should keep our stadium at 80,000 I'd like to hear some realistic suggestions.

Quote:
I am the only one here believe in London can handle a 80K seating stadium
We already have one 90,000 seater and an 82,000 seater (Wembley and Twickenham). It's not whether London can handle a 80k stadium, but whether London needs another 80k stadium. It doesn't. That's what we've been saying all along.

Last edited by RobH; July 28th, 2008 at 11:00 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 11:05 PM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Sorry, I didn't realise the context. Even if they promoted these sports, they'd still reach nowhere near the crowd levels you're advocating. A one off event at Wembley between two teams like the Giants and the Dolphins might sell out now and again, but week in week out watching British American football teams? You'd be lucky to get 20,000 even with all the promotion in the world. These sports have no part in our culture (or very little) and trying to force them into our culture because we have a large stadium we don't know what to do with is ludicrous.

Could you imagine the response of the public and our papers if we kept an 80,000 seat stadium with all the costs that incurs and the ODA turned round and said "it's fine, we're going to use if for American football which we'll promote vigorously in 2013." They'd be laughed out the building.

If you think London should keep our stadium at 80,000 I'd like to hear some realistic suggestions.



We already have one 90,000 seater and an 82,000 seater (Wembley and Twickenham). It's not whether London can handle a 80k stadium, but whether London needs another 80k stadium. It doesn't. That's what we've been saying all along.
I see your point, but your question bring the whole thing back to square one - what Olympic and new vision is, and what Olympic can bring to London. I been laughed for last three pages already...try to bring you guys to this point.

If a vision is easy to reach...it is not a vision, it is a plan. Remember people call NBA girly sport and stupid when it started in US
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Last edited by Sexas; July 28th, 2008 at 11:10 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 11:07 PM   #632
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Easy? Have you seen what London is doing? London's vision is costing billions and will involve 10,000 workmen on the site in a year and a half. We're regenerating an area a size of a small city with these Olympics.

Have a look at some of the images DarJoLe has posted around the site

Particularly this one:

image hosted on flickr


This is the size of the regeneration that's going on. The huge stadium bowl, just about visible in the top right, is itself dwarfed by the total size of the regeneration area.

If that isn't a vision I don't know what it.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 11:20 PM   #633
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I just use one of my post earlier: What London Olympic really can do to our youth? I don't want empty promise and we all know big park can't promote sport isn't it? also it can't be just a catchy (bad) logo.

Yes! nice big park is always welcome, but can a park bring more youth in elite sport? what good can a highly sustainable park do for our youth who just sit at home playing TV game and internet? What's LOCOG's plan to bring those Wii player out of his/her comfort of bedroom and show them it is something better by playing baseball at the backyard, or what is the reason they want to play basketball? If London don't have a major basketball game or baseball game for them to fall in love.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 11:25 PM   #634
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I've always doubted London 2012's or any Olympic Games' ability to offer real social revolution and have stated so many times. I greatly admire Seb Coe's belief that London 2012 could get many more people in the whole of the UK involved in sport but I think it will fall short on this promise.

The vision I'm excited about is the sustainable regeneration of a huge swathe of London; as I've already stated.

Anyway, assuming such social revolution is possible (as you clearly believe), why would having an extra 55,000 seats make a difference? Surely money in grass roots sports is what's needed, not spending an extra £500m on 55,000 seats! And also, why do you think American sports, sports which I've already explained have no part in our culture, are more likely to be able do this than athletics; the sport London's multi-use community stadium will be built for??
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Old July 29th, 2008, 12:51 AM   #635
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Sexas, i don't understand your obsession with making Londoners watch American sports.

We (British people, and Europeans) are generally not interested in American football, baseball or basketball, so how do you expect these sports to attract 80,000 people?
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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexas View Post
What's LOCOG's plan to bring those Wii player out of his/her comfort of bedroom and show them it is something better by playing baseball at the backyard
We're not America. We don't play baseball.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 10:46 AM   #637
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Quote:
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We're not America. We don't play baseball.
In addition to this, Baseball is not included in the 2012 program. 2008 will be it's last Olympic Games. Again proves how little Sexas knows of the topic he is attempting to discuss.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 11:05 AM   #638
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How anyone cannot be impressed by what's happening in East London is beyond me.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 11:47 AM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexas View Post
I just use one of my post earlier: What London Olympic really can do to our youth? I don't want empty promise and we all know big park can't promote sport isn't it? also it can't be just a catchy (bad) logo.

Yes! nice big park is always welcome, but can a park bring more youth in elite sport? what good can a highly sustainable park do for our youth who just sit at home playing TV game and internet? What's LOCOG's plan to bring those Wii player out of his/her comfort of bedroom and show them it is something better by playing baseball at the backyard, or what is the reason they want to play basketball? If London don't have a major basketball game or baseball game for them to fall in love.
ha ha ha ha
have u ever watch ESPN?
London/UK has one of the most prestigious Football/Soccer league over the world, they call it England Premier League (EPL), ha ha ha...
small frog in a small bowl.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 12:01 PM   #640
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from times:

Ready for Hand Over

In Olympic sport, where split-second decisions can separate medal-winners, one of the finer judgments falls to the next host city on how to fill its slot in the closing ceremony of the preceding Games.

On August 24, in the National Stadium in Beijing, London will take centre stage for an eight-minute performance marking the start of a four-year journey to 2012. It is a huge moment, watched by an estimated 1.5billion people. The opportunity to mess it up is spectacular.

Few get the balance right between art, sport, relevance and cultural nuance. Even Sydney, whose opening ceremony in 2000 was hailed as creative genius, fell victim to the “curse of the handover”. Its show in Atlanta in 1996 was ridiculed in Australia for resorting to national clichés: inflatable kangaroos and prawns on bicycles, Bondi lifesavers and Aborigines with didgeridoos.

Coming midway through the host city's grand finale, it is like being a trailer interrupting someone else's film. Stephen Powell, the creative director for London 2012, prefers to think of it as “the climax before the interval”. There is immense pressure building on him and the 40-strong cast, which is practising eight hours a day. Yesterday he sought to diffuse the tension by taking ballet dancers from the Royal Opera House, Zoo Nation, an urban dance troupe, and CanDoCo, a disabled performance group, to Wembley Stadium to give them a sense of the size of their stage.

With 90,000 seats, England's national football stadium mirrors the configuration and the scale of the “Bird's Nest” in Beijing. “This is our iconic stadium and we are going to perform in theirs,” Powell said. “I hope this exercise lessens the ‘oh my god' factor.”

Once in Beijing the cast will have access to a replica of the stadium in which Chinese performers have been training. They may also get a dress rehearsal in the “Bird's Nest”, but probably only at 3am on the morning of the ceremony, after it is transformed from an athletics arena to a stage.

London Olympic organisers, led by Lord Coe, are only too aware of the potential for embarrassment. So, on the basis that there is no pleasing everyone, they have promised to play it straight. “You don't try and rebrand your nation in eight minutes,” Martin Green, the head of ceremonies for London 2012, said. “You create something very visual, hopefully very memorable, with a bit of ‘ooh' and a bit of ‘ah'.”

Deborah Bull, a former principal dancer at the Royal Ballet who is now creative director at the Royal Opera House, is coming out of retirement to perform in “the gig of a lifetime”. She said: “It's about reflecting the character of London. It's not Sunday night at the London Palladium.”

Kicking off with the national anthem sung by the National Youth Theatre to a soundtrack recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra, the show - which will be repeated for the Paralympics in September - intends to project Britain's cultural diversity and young talent.

It will also involve a London bus and David Beckham, two national treasures with instant global recognition. There could be a rock-concert feel to the occasion, given that Ray Winkler, the production designer, has worked on tours for U2 and the Rolling Stones, as well as the set for American football's Super Bowl.

Organisers hope to keep some details secret. “The element of surprise is part of the theatre, but if I'm not giving too much away, we don't have any inflatable Beefeaters,” Powell, who has previously directed for the Royal National Theatre and Royal Shakespeare Company, said. “It's a piece of entertainment, a marketing exercise and a work of art all at the same time.”
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