daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments

General Urban Developments Discussions of projects shorter than 100m/300ft. Also, please post all other threads not specified in other Development News subforums here.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 25th, 2008, 06:57 PM   #901
Jamandell (d69)
Skyscraperholic
 
Jamandell (d69)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,829
Likes (Received): 228

The handover was bloody amazing. I felt so proud.
Jamandell (d69) no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 25th, 2008, 07:02 PM   #902
acc521
Do you expect me to talk?
 
acc521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne, Perth, London
Posts: 7,704
Likes (Received): 450

I thought the dancers looked like zombies all trying to get to the top of the bus.

For the London opening ceremony, I'm hoping there is more of a party vibe after the obligatory introduction showing off the ancient history. The best thing about Sydney was that after the first half, the second half was just a big concert. Even Tiesto made the athlete's parade in Athens exciting.

Beijing's opening ceremony was amazing, but it was too serious, which was the general tone of the whole games - serious, efficient and flawless.

London, bring the fun back
acc521 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #903
brummad
Oh! There he is!!
 
brummad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 904
Likes (Received): 22

just remember beijings segment in athens, hip wiggling ladies and a kung fu man. these segments have nothing to do with the actual games.

however i do hope that someone involved in either kylie or madonnas latest shows is involved. both were superb and visually stunning, just imagine what they could do with the amount of money an opening ceremony gets.
brummad no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2008, 09:14 PM   #904
Mo Rush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 28,964
Likes (Received): 74

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The handover was awful and this is coming from someone who isn't a doom monger, this is no reflect on the opening ceremony in four years time.

They messed up Leonas sound, and the anthem was done terribly. Boris Johnson didn't have a clue and he stuck his hands in his pockets repeatedly

The Routemaster wasn't, and the craaazy dancers just got on my wick.

What frustrates me is that instantly I can come up with a better idea. If Leona had been dressed as Britannia holding the trident...imagine her dressed as Britannia, with the anthem playing at that point, then into the rock music or whatever. David Beckham not standing there stiff but also on a plinth rising, he then does a really cool few keepy uppies and then kicks it far into the crowd below.

Really good dancers like those chosen in the last Madonna concert in London, all in sync, all differnt cultures, dancing around Britannia and Beckham.
well said. hideous..just hideous.
Mo Rush no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #905
Mo Rush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 28,964
Likes (Received): 74

Architecture after the flame goes out

Grand Olympic building projects more often than not become expensive burdens to host cities once the Games are over

In a July interview with Der Spiegel, celebrated Olympic architect Jacques Herzog defended his decision to accept a signature commission from China, despite the nation's abysmal record on human rights. The headline said enough: "Only an idiot would have said no." Given the reception that Herzog's Bird's Nest has received - it is no longer Herzog & de Meuron's building, really, but China's - his answer seems quite obviously correct.

But what happens when the Olympic Games are over? If precedent gives any clue, nothing much – or worse. World record-setting projects in architecture and urban design rarely pay off for host nations. Lack of use, expensive upkeep and bewildering construction costs have plagued cities that have undertaken similarly grand missions for the Olympics. No stadium created for the Olympics has been very profitable, and high design increases the likelihood that costs will balloon. In fact, it might be the host nation who is the idiot for saying yes to the starchitect.

In the last 30 years, Athens is the host city that's been stung the worst by the Olympics. Despite being home to the gods, Athens faced an uphill challenge in proving to the International Olympic Committee that it was fit to serve as the host of the Games. Arguably, it was not. According to the Athens News Agency, the city's hurry-up-and-get-ready costs for the 2004 Summer Games included a staggering $4.3bn spent on infrastructure - spending that did not include building the Attiki Road highway, Eleftherios Venizelos international airport, the tram or the suburban railway, all long-delayed projects that were already in the works.

The second-greatest cost came in the form of sports venues themselves, totalling $3.3bn. For this price, however, Athens didn't get a new cultural touchstone like the Bird's Nest. The city spent a healthy $394m to renovate its pre-existing Olympic stadium, costs that went primarily toward installing a dramatic and controversial roof by architect Santiago Calatrava.

For all the effort, Athens had a hard time selling the Olympics to Greeks, a fact reflected by empty seats and poor returns. Just $2.5bn were recouped in the form of ticket sales, ring-logo merchandise, sponsorships and the like, leaving it to Greece to foot the rest of the estimated $13.4bn total bill. Athens has richly profited from a transit system that it might never have fixed otherwise; the metro ferries some 600,000 passengers each day. But just two years after the Games left town, Athens officials - facing upkeep costs of more than $74m per year for athletic venues that were not used after the Games' end - started thinking about tearing venues down.

Although the city nabbed a signature architect, Athens didn't even go all-in on architecture to the same degree that other Olympic host cities have. Montreal's Olympic stadium, designed by architect Roger Taillibert for the 1976 Summer Games, would have made the list of the most expensive stadia ever built - even if that cost hadn't soared as interest accrued. Originally estimated at $128m, the final price tag reached an absurd $736m - reflecting the difficulty cities face in managing the costs and scopes of such complex, high-design projects.

For reasons of eclectic design compounded by labour strikes, the Big Mistake (as it's known there) was only half complete by the start of the Olympics. It never fully opened. It was fully paid off, though, for a startling $1.4bn, making it the second-most-expensive stadium ever built, according to Forbes. Montreal freed itself of its 30-year burden in December 2006, five years after Montreal's Expos left for Washington, DC, and long after the lustre of Olympic gold had faded.

It's not necessarily brand-name starchitecture that inflates building costs. Sydney's Stadium Australia, built for the 2000 Summer Olympics by the working-man's firm, Bligh Lobb Sports Architects, still cost $690m - elevating it to number 10 on Forbes' list. Sydney's stadium and other athletic venues represented a more significant part of 2000's overall costs, as the city spent relatively little on new transit and infrastructure, building just a single railway to the site of the Games, Homebush Bay (which has suffered neglect and is targeted for transformation into a residence and retail sector). The stadium wasn't terribly useful after the Games – and, worse still, it was useless by design.

Popular Australian sports like cricket and Australian-rules football are played on an oval field, not the square field built for the Games. An $80m revision to the field made it useful for the occasional big matchup in rugby and football, but not for Sydney. The city doesn't have a high-profile professional sports team to call the stadium home and draw the crowds. And Sydney probably never will, owing to the organisation of Australian sports into clubs, with memberships tied to specific locations.

With the Bird's Nest, China has apparently managed to avoid the problem of overreaching costs. At under a purported $500m, the building is a bargain. Of course, it also has a twin in the Water Cube (designed by a consortium of international architects) and is just one of a suite of wunderbar buildings erected in the run-up to the Games - including the Egg Drop (or whatever name Paul Andrew's National Grand Theatre comes to be known by) and Rem Koolhaas's CCTV Tower.

But China didn't learn a lesson from Sydney. According to state media, once the Games are finished, approximately 35% of the stadium's area will be converted to mixed-use facilities, including hotels and shopping malls, for a price of $48m. What's left of the athletic portion of the Bird's Nest will be home to a (most likely terrible) Chinese soccer team, probably the Beijing Guoan. It's a curiosity, but despite rabid soccer fandom throughout China, China Super League soccer games were unable to draw more than 15,000 fans on average in 2007. The Beijing team drew substantially less than this mark, and the league hit an attendance record low in 2005.

Perhaps the Bird's Nest can change all that. At any rate, something will have to change. With purported upkeep costs of $10m per year and Olympic seats sitting empty, even a boomtown like Beijing will need to find another use to help defray some $40bn in costs for the Olympics. Probably any cost will be written off as worth the flattery that Beijing has received. For his part, Herzog himself has suggested that the stadium's immense steel lattice shell offers lots of potential cubbies and spider holes where future democratic activists will come together to plot. (To be sure, not what the client had in mind.) Doesn't that suggest - by knowing contradistinction - that the official events inside the stadium will fall further toward the North Korean end of the spectrum?

Only time (and transparency) will tell whether Beijing's gambit has paid off in actual dividends, the way it seems to have symbolically. But the official results will probably not arrive before London makes any number of bad decisions for 2012. Despite having a grand and grandly expensive stadium in Wembley - despite the Millennium Stadium kerfuffle still being a very sore spot - London nevertheless seems poised to sink a small fortune into a new Olympic stadium. The Hubcap is hardly an answer to the Bird's Nest, architecturally speaking, and not a good fit for London to boot. A superior design by Foreign Office Architects doesn't work either, so long as no natural function for the building will last beyond the Games. (And the less said, the better, about 2012's aquatic centre - resembling, in the words of a friend, something between a manta ray and a uterus.)

The pinnacle of world conferences, the Olympic Games offer host cities a unique opportunity to spend big in a short burst and boost themselves in the international standings. Candidate cities should be encouraged to think about transit and urban design reforms as competitions - a gold in that category improves the city forever, and international competition promotes best practices.

But architecture is not a medal event. Building coliseums whose justification is grounded primarily in architectural one-upmanship is a strategy that can steer a city in the wrong direction.
Mo Rush no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2008, 09:56 PM   #906
jerseyboi
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,144
Likes (Received): 519

2012 Handover Animation

jerseyboi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2008, 10:38 PM   #907
Jamandell (d69)
Skyscraperholic
 
Jamandell (d69)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,829
Likes (Received): 228

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
well said. hideous..just hideous.
I can understand if some people didn't love it...but come on "hideous" seems a bit over the top for me. Could you explain why you feel so negative?

I for one loved it
Jamandell (d69) no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #908
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,934
Likes (Received): 745

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The handover was awful and this is coming from someone who isn't a doom monger, this is no reflect on the opening ceremony in four years time.

They messed up Leonas sound, and the anthem was done terribly. Boris Johnson didn't have a clue and he stuck his hands in his pockets repeatedly

The Routemaster wasn't, and the craaazy dancers just got on my wick.
Actually, I would imagine the sound was the responsibility of the Chinese here as I don't think they would have handed it over to the UK for those 8minutes. But year, despite such almost flawless attention to detail in the rest of their wonderful closing ceremony, they really screwed up the sound for the UK section. Then again, looking back at the opening ceremony, they didn't have much experience with mixing live singing after-all theirs were pretty much all mimed until that point.

Of cause, it could have been on purpose; It is traditional in live gigs that the supporting act don't get as good a mix as the headliners. Maybe this was done on purpose But I honestly doubt it. I'd say the problem was that as explained by the BBC, they didn't have a chance to rehearse in the main stadium for the closing ceremony, and this was their first attempt at live vocals... and they screwed it completely, at Britain's expense.

The Chinese sound engineers cannot be blamed though for the uninspirational dancing around the bus or Boris Johnson's unbutton jacket and fidgety hands

Jimmy Page looked great though.
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature

Last edited by Justme; August 26th, 2008 at 04:56 AM.
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 03:13 AM   #909
aquablue
BANNED
 
aquablue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,750
Likes (Received): 229

No offense to the Brits, but the London handover was awkward - I love Beckham but it appeared that he felt foolish up there...music clashed horribly with the Chinese themes...i would have done a big screen with flyovers of London landmarks, and no BLACK dreary unbrellas, highlighting grim dreary London winters...a little colour was needed... the chinese would have used coloured umbrellas. And phelps's is too laid back for that hyped up MC in London - didn't work very well on TV..should have gotten Bolt.
aquablue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 03:41 AM   #910
madjackmcmad
Registered User
 
madjackmcmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,979
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by brummad View Post
just remember beijings segment in athens, hip wiggling ladies and a kung fu man. these segments have nothing to do with the actual games.
Don't forget Sydneys section at Atlanta and the blow up Kangaroos on bikes

Aside from the low volume level on the singing (should probably have been mimed like all the Chinese were) it was fine.
madjackmcmad no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 08:58 AM   #911
MrColombia
Pereira's Star Child
 
MrColombia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pereira,Colombia
Posts: 6,835
Likes (Received): 207

I cant wait for the London olympics..im sure they will be espectacular as well!!

I'm considering my attendance.... =)
__________________
twitter: @diegogarcestv
MrColombia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 01:03 PM   #912
city_thing
Put it in your mouth
 
city_thing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne.
Posts: 7,131
Likes (Received): 883

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjackmcmad View Post
Don't forget Sydneys section at Atlanta and the blow up Kangaroos on bikes

Aside from the low volume level on the singing (should probably have been mimed like all the Chinese were) it was fine.
We don't dare speak about those bloody kangaroos these days. They've been shunned to the back of the national psyche

Here's a great article from www.theage.com.au - it sums up my sentiments well.
The author writes for The Guardian (UK) - the article is merely an opinion piece for Melbourne's The Age.


London's will be an Olympics of ****-ups, but a lot more fun

* Marina Hyde
* August 26, 2008

SAY what you please about China's Olympics, the Beijing Games were a place of steely schmaltz, where nothing went wrong, ever.

They were the place where the organising committee explained of the ordinary Chinese: "Everybody is happy. That is a fact." They were the place where the buses ran so on time that you suspected time was pegged to the buses, not the other way round. They are the place where yesterday's lead story from the state news agency was puffed with the words "the Olympic moments that touch your heart and purify your soul belong to those who are fighting destiny, triumphing over adversity, or proving to the world that love can be as deep as ocean".

It's a bit like stepping into one of those inspirational posters of kittens that traditionally adorn the walls of dental surgery waiting rooms. You know something unpleasant is happening not far away, but it's oddly easy to zone out contemplating the fluffy little feline.

A fortnight after the Games began, though, and the simulated reality became a little rich for the blood. It's basically like The Matrix, but with less cool clothes. And nothing makes you wish you hadn't taken the red pill like seeing volunteers, coralled into filling empty seats at a venue, unfurling a banner reading, "Nothing can stop the power of China".

By crikey, they need to work on their bannercraft. You just yearn for the sort of sentiment that can adorn the flags at England away games. "Don't go into labour, Hayley" — that sort of thing.

For all their slick management and the great sporting display, it should be said that China's Games were spectacularly, creepily humourless. There was not one iota of good natured fun-poking in the national media, not a single comedy montage on the 18 state TV channels dedicated to reverential coverage of China's big moment.

Nothing was allowed to interfere with the official line. The effect was oddly static, as though the people's joy was handed to them like a stone tablet, instead of being a democratised, roots-up explosion. "Chinese fall hard for sportsmanship, heroism at Olympics," begins one of the daily 437 hard-hitting exposes of national delight.

"Thirty years after China's reform and opening up to the outside world, the Chinese have merged into the world," we were informed in another, "by hosting the Games with all their heart, cheering for all the players, sharing their laughters and tears and idolising the world's common heroes." OK. I think that's finally, finally enough Kool-Aid.

In fact, all of a sudden, as we prepare to turn the corner into the next Olympiad, Britain is starting to look like the perfect contrasting destination for the old torch. These Games have provided thrills, but how much richer the Olympics will be for taking place in a city of irreverence and cynicism, as well as enthusiasm — a Shangri La of institutionalised press officer-baiting, as opposed to somewhere you can't ask a simple question about a couple of disappeared grandmothers without being accused of being ungrateful guests.

We may not have 2000 perfectly synchronised drummers, but we've got a nation of cussed folk dancing to their own beats. If Beijing's Games were a state's Olympics, then London's ought to be a democracy's — the chance to humanise them a bit more.

And if humanising the Games sounds like a euphemism for cocking up a few organisational aspects of them, then so be it. Assuming we remember to keep it lit, the torch is heading towards the land of a thousand potential snafus, which will all be hopelessly overplayed by the wretched media and cackled at in pubs afterwards.

At least people will be laughing to defuse the tension. There'll be nightly TV comedy shows, hopefully along the lines of Roy and HG's brilliant Sydney effort, The Dream. Two weeks inside the Beijing Matrix and you just ache to have seen people mocking the official mascots.

What we'll need to nip in the bud, though, are initiatives like the effort from British Airways, which wins the prize for Stupidest Press Release of the Olympics. BA has broken off from losing your bags to conduct a survey that has concluded that "the nation's feeling of Britishness when watching Britain compete has soared by almost a third since the start of the Olympics", and some boffin called Peter Marsh goes on record to say: "We cannot underestimate the value of an occasion such as the Olympics to the social cohesion of our nation."

Strong words, Peter — and unintentionally accurate, unless you really did mean to say underestimate instead of overestimate.

Let's see much, much less of this as London becomes the Olympic city, and begins its endearingly misguided attempt to launder the Olympic brand. One of the things Beijing has reminded us is that corporations and governments just get this stuff all wrong, and you can't synthesise euphoria convincingly. Much better if we just relax and let the chaos begin. Play to our strengths, and all that.

Marina Hyde is a Guardian columnist.


It'll be great to see the Games have some humanity injected back into them after a largely sterile Beijing stint.
__________________
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft...
city_thing no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 02:27 PM   #913
acc521
Do you expect me to talk?
 
acc521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne, Perth, London
Posts: 7,704
Likes (Received): 450

As long as the drunken cockheads are kept under control, London's olympics are going to be immensely more fun than China's.
acc521 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #914
city_thing
Put it in your mouth
 
city_thing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne.
Posts: 7,131
Likes (Received): 883

Drunken cockheads exist everywhere. I'm pretty sure I could find a few even in Beijing without too much trouble.

I don't see what makes British drunks any worse than Australian ones....
__________________
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft...
city_thing no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 02:33 PM   #915
acc521
Do you expect me to talk?
 
acc521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne, Perth, London
Posts: 7,704
Likes (Received): 450

Not a swipe at Britain. More related to the general problem that western cultures have as opposed to eastern cultures re drunken violence.

Of course there will be a bucketload of cops in all the main spots and nothing will be allowed to get too out of control.
acc521 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #916
ClishMaclaver
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 62
Likes (Received): 0

I cant wait for Londons olympics. Its going to be immesnley entertaining and completely different to China's.

And like they say. I can already see some of the banners that will adorn our stadiums.

"The real McHoy accept no limitations - cycle in the womens sprint"
ClishMaclaver no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #917
MelboyPete
Proud Melbournian
 
MelboyPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,603
Likes (Received): 195

I don't think it would be fair to compare how London Olympics would pan out compared to Beijing. Every Olympics is different which what makes them interesting.
I'm sure London's would be great. I'm sure the 'snippet' of what was shown in the closing ceremony would reflect the standard of the next games.
Can't wait.
MelboyPete no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2008, 06:45 PM   #918
acc521
Do you expect me to talk?
 
acc521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne, Perth, London
Posts: 7,704
Likes (Received): 450

The whole thing with Chinese culture is that they are big on "saving face". It is a big deal to be serious and do things right and not make any mistakes and so an and so forth. I was watching a documentary the other day about some unis in China that are teaching their students not to worry so much about "saving face" as it will impede their ability to engage with those from Western nations.

From a Chinese point of view, they did all they could to ensure they didn't lose face and unsuprisingly the cost of this was that to most Westerners, it was very dull and lifeless.
acc521 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2008, 02:18 AM   #919
MTF
Registered User
 
MTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,778
Likes (Received): 203

This thread needs a big pic update otherwise it will end up in London vs Beijing discussion.
MTF no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2008, 03:54 AM   #920
Siopao
レジスタドユーザー
 
Siopao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,417
Likes (Received): 100

London will be a victim of comparison for the next 4 years.

And the Handover performance wasn't so impressive. For me, it's too broadway-ish and there's nothing really to look forward to for the Opening Ceremony in 2012. And... Leona Lewis? Are you kidding me? Is that what London has? Pop Culture? There's nothing spectacular about that. London doesn't have that rich cultural identity that Beijing has. That is probably why Olympic Athletes aren't so enthusiastic about London like they were 4 years ago when Beijing was the next host.
Siopao no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
london, olympic games 2012, olympic stadium, olympics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu