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Old December 14th, 2010, 04:51 PM   #2081
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You also need to take into account geography. In Italy, the dispersion of average driven distance from foreign drivers is very wide I'd say. You have the tourists who landed in Malpensa Airport and took a car to hear north to Switzerland. You have those going by car all the way south (1.500+ km) to beach resorts. You have those crossing from France to Austria...

If the vignette cost too little, Italians would fell unfair that foreigners spent less than them to travel the same distance on a single trip. If you have a too expensive vignette, touristic traffic (and their Euros spent in hotels, restaurants etc) could be well reduced in border areas.

So I guess they could adopt a system in which you pay online, with credit-card and plate number information, like the Congestion Charge, within a reasonable time, or risk a HUGE (like €1000+, besides any due toll) fine.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #2082
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Bear in mind that we are not talking about replacing the existing tool booth system in Italy. The free-flow system will only be introduced on some raccordi and on Salerno-Reggio Calabria (as well as some Sicilian autostrade).
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Old December 14th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Bear in mind that we are not talking about replacing the existing tool booth system in Italy. The free-flow system will only be introduced on some raccordi and on Salerno-Reggio Calabria (as well as some Sicilian autostrade).
I know! First plans were to introduce tolls in all Superestrade managed by ANAS (the Italian public authority for highways) - partially in case of highways in Sicily where CAS (Consorzio Autostradale Siciliano), a regional authority, has a share on the special-purpose entities that owns A19, A20 and A18 besides some other 1+1 expressways.

Then, I read they dropped the plans for 1+1 expressways. Therefore, the major deployments will be in A3 (Salerno-Reggio Calabria), SS3bis Ravenna-Terni (though I think the sector Ravenna-A14 will not be tolled) and non-tolled sectors of A19 (A20-Catania) and A20 (Messina-Palermo).

I've read conflicting information about electronic tolling being introduced (or not) in Sardegna's expressways.

I agree with the model, provided money stays within ANAS and used only to improve, maintain and expand the network. Yet, I think in case of A3, A19 and A20 they should build toll booths instead.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 06:21 PM   #2084
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Quote:
I know! First plans were to introduce tolls in all Superestrade managed by ANAS (the Italian public authority for highways) - partially in case of highways in Sicily where CAS (Consorzio Autostradale Siciliano), a regional authority, has a share on the special-purpose entities that owns A19, A20 and A18 besides some other 1+1 expressways.
No expressways

Quote:
Then, I read they dropped the plans for 1+1 expressways. Therefore, the major deployments will be in A3 (Salerno-Reggio Calabria), SS3bis Ravenna-Terni (though I think the sector Ravenna-A14 will not be tolled) and non-tolled sectors of A19 (A20-Catania) and A20 (Messina-Palermo).
SS3bis will not be tolled because is a SS. Axx and RAxx manged by ANAS will be tolled
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Old December 14th, 2010, 06:35 PM   #2085
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No expressways
What about that sector of A18 that is, officially, classified as Strada Statale 118, just north of Siracusa? I also thought that SS626 was under jurisdiction of CAS.

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SS3bis will not be tolled because is a SS. Axx and RAxx manged by ANAS will be tolled
So they really decided to toll only the autostrade. In such case, I think they should upgrade SS3bis from "superstrada" to "autostrada". They just need to build some shoulders and upgrade some junctions and cut-off some (few, indeed) roadside accesses to local roads.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #2086
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I see your point. As far as I know the Italian system will only require a bank account number, linked to the car plate, to be communicated to the toll company: they will calculate your fare and charge you accordingly after you use the roads.
So if I want to use Italian roads, I need to give my bank account number ... Sure
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Old December 14th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #2087
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What about that sector of A18 that is, officially, classified as Strada Statale 118, just north of Siracusa? I also thought that SS626 was under jurisdiction of CAS.
No, SS118 and SS626 are managed by ANAS
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Old December 14th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #2088
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I think that as the free-flow system starts operating, plate-covers in Italy will become the most requested accessory for cars!

Last edited by Mauz®; December 14th, 2010 at 09:54 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 11:27 PM   #2089
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So if I want to use Italian roads, I need to give my bank account number ... Sure
I was only guessing, ANAS has called for proposals of free flow payment systems to several companies... nobody knows yet who's gonna win and what the system would be.

However, I can't see what the problem is with the bank account. Did you give your number to your telephone and utilities company? I trust much more a state-owned company than a private one.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #2090
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The problem is I'm not regular user of Italian roads. It is really awkward to do bureaucratic things and filling some papers for using let say just 10 km of ANAS roads per year. I'd rather see unified solutions for all Italian roads and abolishing numerous toll gates no matter who the owner of the particular road is.

And I never needed to give my bank account number for any of my travels anywhere on the world. Why then just in Italy?
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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #2091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
The problem is I'm not regular user of Italian roads. It is really awkward to do bureaucratic things and filling some papers for using let say just 10 km of ANAS roads per year. I'd rather see unified solutions for all Italian roads and abolishing numerous toll gates no matter who the owner of the particular road is.

And I never needed to give my bank account number for any of my travels anywhere on the world. Why then just in Italy?
I'm SURE there will be an alternative payment method, perhaps a little bit more expensive, like passive online charge (the user goes to the website).
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #2092
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people with telepass will pay automatically, people without (including foreigners) will be billed at home
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Old December 15th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #2093
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people with telepass will pay automatically,
Telepass is microwave based, so how would people with it be charged? You need some supporting infrastructure on those roads.

How it is now with prepay-Telepass for foreigners? It's sad they don't make it available, in other countries such systems worked for everyone almost from the beginning.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 12:02 AM   #2094
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Quote:
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Telepass is microwave based, so how would people with it be charged? You need some supporting infrastructure on those roads.

How it is now with prepay-Telepass for foreigners? It's sad they don't make it available, in other countries such systems worked for everyone almost from the beginning.
as far as I know the final technical solution has not been decided yet, but I am sure we will find a solution. Probably there will be some sort of "gates" under which cars will run

About Telepass: we love it a lot, thank you, and we do not want foreigners to mess around it, please get into the queue.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 07:36 AM   #2095
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About Telepass: we love it a lot, thank you, and we do not want foreigners to mess around it, please get into the queue.
Geez, I'm Italian and I approve pre-paid Telepass for foreigners! Foreign drivers are the most likely to:

(1) make sudden changes near the toll booths as they try to read the crazy signaling of cash, credit-card and passcard booths.

(2) get confused with the increasing number of automated-only exits. In some cases, like in exists from A10 west of Savona, there are just 2/3 booths, but foreigners get stuck and take ages to clear the "premere qui" and so (fortunately now I guess every automated toll booth has multilingual menu, but still)
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Old December 16th, 2010, 11:51 AM   #2096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
About Telepass: we love it a lot, thank you, and we do not want foreigners to mess around it, please get into the queue.
I don't like Telepass; I'd like it if it included some sort of discount, but it doesn't.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 04:49 PM   #2097
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Due to heavy snowfalls and low temperatures a section of A14 in Abruzzo (between Ortona and Lanciano) has been closed down. In Southern Italy, especially Calabria and Sicilia, there are a number of situations on A3 and A20.
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Old December 16th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #2098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Geez, I'm Italian and I approve pre-paid Telepass for foreigners! Foreign drivers are the most likely to:

(1) make sudden changes near the toll booths as they try to read the crazy signaling of cash, credit-card and passcard booths.

(2) get confused with the increasing number of automated-only exits. In some cases, like in exists from A10 west of Savona, there are just 2/3 booths, but foreigners get stuck and take ages to clear the "premere qui" and so (fortunately now I guess every automated toll booth has multilingual menu, but still)
(1) one should be really stupid not to be familiar with white-blue-yellow signals which are visible from the space. but anyway, i believe you that they happen too often. imo, Italy has fantastic way of signing diverse ways of paying the tolls, non of the other countries have it so good.

(2) i also believe you thatm although automated booths work in the same way in whole world
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Old December 16th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #2099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't like Telepass; I'd like it if it included some sort of discount, but it doesn't.
I use Telepass everyday and I love it!
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Old December 18th, 2010, 03:20 PM   #2100
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About Telepass: we love it a lot, thank you, and we do not want foreigners to mess around it, please get into the queue.
If there is any mess, then there is at ordinary tollbooths. Once I needed to try three times with different 1 € coins to pay 0.90 € toll. And not to mention very slow procedures at manned toll gates.

And thank you for nice welcome.
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