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Old January 7th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #2121
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Picassa does not support direct linking if images, changing browser will not help. Try this:
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Old January 7th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #2122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Picassa does not support direct linking if images
I can see them.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 05:51 PM   #2123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
Don't know why it doesn't work for you...Can you try in another browser?
Now I can see them... same browser, different OS
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Old January 7th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #2124
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I can see them.
Me too: same OS and browser, just different computer.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #2125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
Italian A23:



and A27:

do you have further pictures of these autostradas?? (not the one, which are in google or wikipedia!!)
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Old January 8th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #2126
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I may take some pictures of the A27 in the next days.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #2127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I may take some pictures of the A27 in the next days.
So do it.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 10:30 PM   #2128
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A few photos of another user to begin: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=128

The A27 was planned to be an intermediate north-south motorway between A22-A13 (Brenner) and A23-A10 (Tauern), that's why both A27 and SS51 (the parallel national road) are named "di Alemagna", an old synonym of "Germany" (it has the same root as the French "Allemagne"). This project has been dropped and is opposed by the two Tirols.

So a variant has been proposed to link it with the A23 (light blue in the map below). This new part would require 40 km of tunnels (x 2 tubes) out of 80 km of new road, while the brown motorway (also planned) lies entirely in the plain. The planned traffic for the light blue road is 35.000 vehicles per day, but certainly a lot of it of transit, for which the brown route could be a cheaper alternative (consider also that it is already partly opened as A28).

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Old January 9th, 2011, 04:24 AM   #2129
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Nowadays they think about tunneling everything. I am sure they could some some impressive works with massive and tall viaducts, like they did with other transalpine routes (e.g., A23 itself) and just a couple tunnels.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 08:13 AM   #2130
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Beside that nearly nobody wants new roads there, also because of famous ski and holydays resorts (Cortina d'Ampezzo, Pustertal, Zillertal), the valleys here are mostly east-west so you would have to use tunnels to cross the mountain chains, you can't just climbing a side of the mountain like on the Brenner or Tarvisio. This about the abandoned project to link the A27 with München.

As for the A23-A27, I don't see why build a road there when a few km to the south there is a great plain.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 09:54 PM   #2131
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Other photos of the A27: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=132
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Old January 11th, 2011, 03:47 AM   #2132
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thanks for the pics. A27 is a great motorway. what about linking it with the Brenner motorway?

if there were plans to go till munich, where exactly would be the route?
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Old January 11th, 2011, 11:02 AM   #2133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
thanks for the pics. A27 is a great motorway. what about linking it with the Brenner motorway?
Apparently the government of Alto-Adige/Sudtirol does not want other motorways on its territory... but in 2014 the licence of Brenner motorway (whose tolls go to a substantial amount to Alto-Adige government) will expire and probably won't be renewed... in this case it is probable that Alto-Adige will allow for construction of another motorway, provided they get part of the tolls.

Quote:
if there were plans to go till munich, where exactly would be the route?
This is a map I did for the Italian thread, showing the original project of 1972:


Basically it would arrive to Val Pusteria through Cortina d'Ampezzo and at Brunico it would enter Valle Aurina (the most northerly piece of Italy). A large tunnel would be built either towards Zillertal (left dashed line) or towards Gerlostal (right dashed line).

There are other projects (this map courtesy of legolego):


red route is through Val Pusteria till A22, blue route is the recent project of "passante Alpe-Adria" to connect with A23, green routes are relatively old projects (1990s) for a tunnel under Monte Cavallino and provide the "third access" to Austria:
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Old January 11th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #2134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Apparently the government of Alto-Adige/Sudtirol does not want other motorways on its territory... but in 2014 the licence of Brenner motorway (whose tolls go to a substantial amount to Alto-Adige government) will expire and probably won't be renewed... in this case it is probable that Alto-Adige will allow for construction of another motorway, provided they get part of the tolls.


Basically it would arrive to Val Pusteria through Cortina d'Ampezzo and at Brunico it would enter Valle Aurina (the most northerly piece of Italy). A large tunnel would be built either towards Zillertal (left dashed line) or towards Gerlostal (right dashed line).

red route is through Val Pusteria till A22, blue route is the recent project of "passante Alpe-Adria" to connect with A23, green routes are relatively old projects (1990s) for a tunnel under Monte Cavallino and provide the "third access" to Austria:
Thanks for the information and that summary. I suppose that currently there is no proper time for such huge and expensive motorway project in Alps (for more reasons). Maybe some smaller and definitely cheaper project might be considered:

a)there is the highway No.450 - close to the east-bank of Garda Lake. IMO only some improvement of that road and the construction of the direct connection to A22 (in Affi) as well as to A4 at Peschiera could be one local and helpful solution - for the transit traffic Brescia - Brennero as well. There is quite useless detour via the juction Verona.

b)The outer ringroad in Brescia - it should be already completed.

c)The new highway SS11 Brescia - Peschiera (Garda Lake)

d)The pending project of the motorway A31 Vicenza-Trento - as the alternative route - there is the highway SS47 via Bassano del Grappa

e)I do not know the current SS13 between Udine (tangenziale A23) and Pordenone (A28). The road could be improved a bit (bypass-constructions etc.) and there could be quite cheap alternative to the motorway A4/A23 via Palmanova.

f)some further up-grade of the route E66 - Brixen (A22.it)-Brunico-Dobbiaco-Lienz-Spittal (A10.at) could be considered...There is also Felbertauerntunnel available....

The fact is that there is (still) only one motorway connecting Munich/Bavaria with Innsbruck and Brenner(o). Sure, it is topic directly attached to Austrian/German motorways.....
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Old January 11th, 2011, 07:30 PM   #2135
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Thanks for the information and that summary. I suppose that currently there is no proper time for such huge and expensive motorway project in Alps (for more reasons). Maybe some smaller and definitely cheaper project might be considered:
One of the projects now for the A27 is to link it eastward, through Tolmezzo, to the A23.

Quote:
a)there is the highway No.450 - close to the east-bank of Garda Lake. IMO only some improvement of that road and the construction of the direct connection to A22 (in Affi) as well as to A4 at Peschiera could be one local and helpful solution - for the transit traffic Brescia - Brennero as well. There is quite useless detour via the juction Verona.
I can't agree more. SS450 would do its job properly only when connected to A4 and A22.

Quote:
b)The outer ringroad in Brescia - it should be already completed.
This is already U/C. It should be ready on May 2012.

Quote:
c)The new highway SS11 Brescia - Peschiera (Garda Lake)
Almost completed, AFAIK.

Quote:
d)The pending project of the motorway A31 Vicenza-Trento - as the alternative route - there is the highway SS47 via Bassano del Grappa
Works on A31 are already ongoing but southbound towards Rovigo (and again, ending on a SS road and not on the Autostrada A13 -- this is absurd). The northbound extension is something they are talking about since many years, but there are some political and engineering difficulties

Quote:
e)I do not know the current SS13 between Udine (tangenziale A23) and Pordenone (A28). The road could be improved a bit (bypass-constructions etc.) and there could be quite cheap alternative to the motorway A4/A23 via Palmanova.
I know nothing about that particular route but I know there are some plans to link A23 and A28 with a superstrada.

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f)some further up-grade of the route E66 - Brixen (A22.it)-Brunico-Dobbiaco-Lienz-Spittal (A10.at) could be considered...There is also Felbertauerntunnel available....
This is one of the possible project for connecting A27 to A22 (red route on the legolego map)
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Old January 11th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #2136
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(and again, ending on a SS road and not on the Autostrada A13 -- this is absurd)
This SS is a superstrada, that is, a 2x2 road. But still quite illogic.

Quote:
One of the projects now for the A27 is to link it eastward, through Tolmezzo, to the A23.
See my post 2128.

Another project: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=166
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Old January 11th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
This SS is a superstrada, that is, a 2x2 road. But still quite illogic.
Supestrada is not synonym with 2x2. Some superstradas are 1+1 but with no at-grade intersections and restriction for transits (SS650 Trignina, SS154 Sangritana, ecc)
This is not another project, it's just the same I posted with map.
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Old January 11th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #2138
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1) ok, but this one as far I know is 2x2

2) yes, I'm sorry
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Old January 11th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #2139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
One of the projects now for the A27 is to link it eastward, through Tolmezzo, to the A23.


I can't agree more. SS450 would do its job properly only when connected to A4 and A22.


This is already U/C. It should be ready on May 2012.


Almost completed, AFAIK.


Works on A31 are already ongoing but southbound towards Rovigo (and again, ending on a SS road and not on the Autostrada A13 -- this is absurd). The northbound extension is something they are talking about since many years, but there are some political and engineering difficulties


I know nothing about that particular route but I know there are some plans to link A23 and A28 with a superstrada.


This is one of the possible project for connecting A27 to A22 (red route on the legolego map)

You are right. The trouble is the missing (direct) junction of the SS450 with A4 and A22. The intersections in Affi and Peschiera are quite tricke for drivers are not suitable for transit-transport (nowadays). No doubts. But there is the potencial to cut the route/relation Brescia-Brennero a bit and to divert partially the traffic from Verona.
I am happy to hear such a information about the outerring of Brescia as well as the SS 11 (nuova) there. I was there in 2008 for the last time...
Well the motorway connection (southern part of the A31) between Vicenza and Rovigo would be the step forward for the region round Padova, no doubts...If the motorway is finished by the junction only with SS16 (Via Adriatica), and not directly with A13, it is the planning mistake.....
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Old January 12th, 2011, 12:30 AM   #2140
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Well the motorway connection (southern part of the A31) between Vicenza and Rovigo would be the step forward for the region round Padova, no doubts...If the motorway is finished by the junction only with SS16 (Via Adriatica), and not directly with A13, it is the planning mistake.....
The connection of A31 south won't be with SS16 Adriatica but SS434 Transpolesana. This is a small map:


You can clearly see that A31 is going to be a mere double of A13, and won't serve Rovigo and its surroundings much better than A13 does...
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