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Old June 18th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #2521
g.spinoza
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T4 is the chosen one.
http://www.lestradedellinformazione....icolo7263.html
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Old June 18th, 2011, 04:27 PM   #2522
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Why waste time and money on studies if it's obvious it won't be built anyway?
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Old June 18th, 2011, 04:31 PM   #2523
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Because if they manage to somehow "convince" Trentino administrator to agree, they will have their concession automatically renewed until 2026; otherwise they will have to compete in a regular tender.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 01:32 AM   #2524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Here are the plans for A31 north: http://www.ladige.it/inc/class/easy_...valdastico.pdf

The preferred one is T4, but it is unlikely to be built.
Hi.
Do you know where i can found (links) projects and also about other italian highways??
A3 Sa-Rc o A18 Siracusa-Gela, for example?



thank you.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 01:52 AM   #2525
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sorry, wrong post.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 11:04 AM   #2526
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You can search for the VIA (Valutazione di Impatto Ambientale = Environmental Impact Evaluation) of the projects.

For example:
http://www.dsa.minambiente.it/VIA/Home.aspx for Italy
http://via.regione.piemonte.it/index.htm and http://www.sistemapiemonte.it/ambiente/via/ for Piemonte

You can try with Google, finding for example:
http://www.gurs.regione.sicilia.it/G...09-03-p16.html
http://www.regione.sicilia.it/turism...E%20finale.pdf
http://www.regione.sicilia.it/turism...tps/parte2.pdf
http://www.regione.sicilia.it/turism...arte%202-3.pdf
http://www.dsa.minambiente.it/via/De...D_Progetto=232

Unfortunately it is very difficult to find detailed informations of Italian projects.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #2527
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I think the best way to find information about the Italian projects is to read the Italian forum (section "Strade e Autostrade"), with every topic dedicated to a specifical project.

If there's some public information available about an Italian project you will surely find it there. If you don't find it, maybe there's no public information available.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #2528
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Not many forumers here speak Italian, though...
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Old June 19th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #2529
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Usually the most important informations are displayed in the first page of every thread!

Maybe it's possible to find something also on www.urbanfile.it. Many informations about a lot of projects, but not all the projects in Italy.
And the site is in Italian language too...
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Old June 19th, 2011, 04:03 PM   #2530
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I have a solution for Valdastico Nord: Build the motorway up to Lastebasse, on the VI/TN border, and end it there. Then, if there are traffic troubles on SS349 and they want the A31 to Trento, just say that they didn't wanted it.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #2531
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A dead-end tunnel, what a wonderful idea
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Old June 19th, 2011, 10:14 PM   #2532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Here are the plans for A31 north: http://www.ladige.it/inc/class/easy_...valdastico.pdf

The preferred one is T4, but it is unlikely to be built.
Is it necessary to build such motorway? I don't see the reason, enlarging A22 to 2x3 would be enough.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 06:26 AM   #2533
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Quote:
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Is it necessary to build such motorway? I don't see the reason, enlarging A22 to 2x3 would be enough.
The point is to provide a further link that can stir up development in the foothill, bringing new businesses, making them attractive commuter towns for Trento and so on.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:28 PM   #2534
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No motorway is useless per se (expect if you build it in the middle of the Sahara desert). A22 will be enlarged only from A1 junction till Verona, and it is still the only fast link between central Europe and Italy (Swiss A13 is not a motorway and it's not fast). For Veneto region a complete A31 could be quite useful.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:42 PM   #2535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Not many forumers here speak Italian, though...
brick84 does... probably he doesn't know this Italian forum subsection
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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:58 PM   #2536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
For Veneto region a complete A31 could be quite useful.
Yep. Veneto gets a quicker access to the North and maybe even access to a few extra commuters from Trentino. But for Trentino itself, there does not appear to be a lot in a complete A31. I would say that the city of Trento has limited potential for attracting major new business, and for its current enterprises the access to the city is good enough. Then again, you wonder why the pushback is so strong. It's not that the Trentino environment is at stake in any way, now that the Trentino part of the motorway is expected to run through tunnels and then into the Adige valley where there already is a motorway anyway. In other words, how much downside is there for the Trentino region?

On this point, the toll situation may play a role in the Trentino opposition. The region owns a stake in Autobrennero SpA and thus sees a few cents of every euro tolled on the A22. The A31 is, however, a project undertaken by another concessionaire. Is the region afraid of a dilusion of the proceeds that come out of the A22? But if that is the case, I would say that all bets will be on in a few years time, namely in connection with the nearing end of the A22 concession in favour of Autobrennero SpA. When that needs to be re-negotiated, the region may be prepared to concede a few points including the A31 being completed towards the A22.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 03:20 PM   #2537
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This is adamantine. I couldn't explain better.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 05:41 PM   #2538
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A31 was once considered a showcase of "highways to nowhere" that motivated, in 1978 (?), the pass of the "no new highway alignment law" in Italy, that, in a nutshell, prohibited the construction of new highway alignments in Italy with public funds. Not that it was a draconian law, as it provided exceptions for alignments already planned and authorized.

They revoked the law more than 20 years later only.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #2539
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legge 492 from 1975.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 07:15 PM   #2540
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So the question is, is the Valdastico a "highway to nowhere"? My own estimate is that it would generate some use, maybe even more use than many motorways and superstrade elsewhere in the country. But that in itself does not justify the decision to build. If one could extend the A31 at a relatively low cost, then a concessionaire or the Veneto region could have a go at it. But my own estimate would be that the usage levels of an extended A31 would be too low to justify the construction cost. For public investors, I fail to see the upside for the region or the country. A toll company would simply look at profits and those cannot be generated on a route with such low usage (the logical toll amount for the tunnel would be so high that potential users would rather drive via Verona). Now a toll company could justify the construction on the basis of some synergy-argument, but I don't see one in this case.

So if the owner of the A31 (BVVP, isn't it?) decided to pursue construction of the Valdastico Nord, I think that their other motorways would be used to fund the losses generated by its Northern branch. In other words, they'll just increase tolls elsewhere. Means that completing the A31 cannot really be seen as something that is in Italy's or even Veneto's public interest.
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