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Old August 2nd, 2011, 09:01 PM   #2641
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I know other, but it's in Spain, so I'm going to post on it Spanish roads thread.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 10:07 PM   #2642
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End of the SS16 Padova - Otranto (the longest Italian road, exactly 1000km): it's the only four digit km sign in Italy.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strada_...e_16_Adriatica
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 10:17 AM   #2643
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Hello,

I have some questions. I'm going to Cagliari from Croatia next weekend I want to know what is the best solution to go there by car. Is it better to take ferry in Livorno or Genova? Or some other place. And could you also tell me prices for autostradas and ferry.

Thanks in advance
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 11:13 AM   #2644
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Today the third lane on the 22-km section of A1 Firenze Nord-Firenze Sud *should* have been opened.

EDIT: A couple of days ago also 16 km of third lanes have been opened on A1 Roma Nord-Settebagni.

Last edited by g.spinoza; August 3rd, 2011 at 11:24 AM.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 12:09 PM   #2645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Today the third lane on the 22-km section of A1 Firenze Nord-Firenze Sud *should* have been opened.

EDIT: A couple of days ago also 16 km of third lanes have been opened on A1 Roma Nord-Settebagni.
There has been a big stream of inauguration this month on A3, A1 and A14 or the most important highways (with A4) of Italy.

The investments of the last years are starting to pay off
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Old August 4th, 2011, 09:56 AM   #2646
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To me, it seems that Italy has to wait for one or two more years before the investments start to pay off: A3 upgrade, Variante di Valico, third lane Barberino - Incisa, third lane on A14 until Ancona, third lane on A9. The inaugurations of last week are good news, but relatively small improvements. Italian road authorities do that every year as a goodwill exercise in the weeks just before the Summer exodus: "we've worked hard to alleviate you."

Most blatantly, the opening of 22 kilometers between Firenze Nord and Firenze Sud is not really 22. The northern bit of that route (Firenze Nord to Firenze Scandicci, I believe) has already been six-lane for a couple of years now. The southern bit of the route is in a temporary setting where, for at least two years to come, you can only drive 90 kph. And then they also use the occasion to rename the Firenze Certosa exit. Probably had obtained too much of a bad name as a result of traffic jams...

Inaugurations on the A14 include -drum roll- improved toll stations at exits. I do appreciate that improved caselli may save traffic jams for through traffic, but they are intermediate steps well before completion of the big thing: the widening until Ancona. Likewise for the supa-dupa inaugurations on the A3: didn't one of them entail that one stretch of A3 is now no longer 2+0 but 2+1?

The more important news seems to have come through the cracks of an anti-maffia hearing involving the Italian transport minister: did I understand correctly that he said that the 60 kilometers of A3 where the road works have not yet started will not be rebuilt due to a lack of funds?
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Last edited by -Pino-; August 4th, 2011 at 10:44 AM.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #2647
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I quote Pino for everything but the last statement. The A3 has been widened to 3 lanes + emergency all the way from Salerno to Sicignano. The last part, from Sicignano to Reggio, will remain 2-laned and gain the emergency lane, but it will also be rectified in many sections, involving the construction of whole new pieces: the autostrada, once finished, will be 10 km shorter than the previous one.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #2648
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Question to Italian users. I once heard a statement that the Italian Government's policy is to build toll-free (lowered-toll?) roads in the south of the country. The rationale is of course to help the less economically developed regions. Examples for this would be the A3, A19, A29 motorways.

Do you think this statement is true?

Does this policy (if there is such) is written somewhere in legal form?

I do not want to unleash any kind of heated debate (north vs. south), I'm looking for data for my masters thesis.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 02:52 PM   #2649
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Economic development of Calabria was very much a rationale of the construction of the A3 in the 1960s. Never heard so in respect of roads like the A19 en A29, but it cannot be excluded.

Now I'm not Italian, but I am not aware of any present policy to revitalise the South through construction of new infrastructure. Of course, economic spin-off is presented when discussing projects like the Messina Bridge or the A3 reconstruction, but I do not think that it forms the key driver of the politicians involved. And just look at sheer numbers. Public investments into new infrastructure North of Napoli is much larger than investments into new infrastructure South of Napoli. When big ticket projects like the A3 and the Messina Bridge are complete, the North will outnumber the South by even larger figures.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #2650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The last part, from Sicignano to Reggio, will remain 2-laned and gain the emergency lane, but it will also be rectified in many sections, involving the construction of whole new pieces: the autostrada, once finished, will be 10 km shorter than the previous one.
I know that that is the end situation, but that is the picture for 2014. Current situation is of course that there are prolonged stretches of 2+0 as a result of the ongoing work. So this is where my story about 2+1 / 2+0 came in. I thought that I read that one of the big "openings" just before the Summer Exodus was having a third lane in a situation that was 2+0 until July. Which of course is only an intermediate step towards the final situation of 2+2.

And how about that rumour about the 60 kms still to be approved? I presume that that is somewhere between Sicignano and Reggio. Consequence of the news story may just be that parts of that stretch will remain at 2+2 (which is alright) but without emergency lane and with some dangerous curves (not as good).
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Old August 4th, 2011, 05:04 PM   #2651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Economic development of Calabria was very much a rationale of the construction of the A3 in the 1960s. Never heard so in respect of roads like the A19 en A29, but it cannot be excluded.
I don't know where to find official documents but it's widely known in Italy that A29 was built as a "compensation" for the Belice Earthquake of 1968, in fact construction began in 1971.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
I know that that is the end situation, but that is the picture for 2014. Current situation is of course that there are prolonged stretches of 2+0 as a result of the ongoing work. So this is where my story about 2+1 / 2+0 came in. I thought that I read that one of the big "openings" just before the Summer Exodus was having a third lane in a situation that was 2+0 until July. Which of course is only an intermediate step towards the final situation of 2+2.
Yes that is true, but, as a said before, from Salerno to Sicignano it has already been upgraded to 3+3+emergencies and I think works are already complete there.

Quote:
And how about that rumour about the 60 kms still to be approved? I presume that that is somewhere between Sicignano and Reggio. Consequence of the news story may just be that parts of that stretch will remain at 2+2 (which is alright) but without emergency lane and with some dangerous curves (not as good).
No rumors, it is true. Those are concentrated in the south part of the road. It would be a shame if that part will remain with no emergency, but it will be in good company (German A8 between Rosenheim and Salzburg, for instance), and it still will be a very big improvement over the past situation.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 07:36 PM   #2652
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In the 1970s and 1980s, many routes were built in southern areas to spur development, beyond highways. These 1+1 expressways are very important and have been important because most of Calabria and Basilicata was sort-of isolated, connected to the rest of Italy just by shoddy mountainous roads (most of the area is rugged, contrary to the rest of Italy where you have a central mountain ridge with most population, cities and activities sprawled between the ridge and the ocean).

Examples of such routes are SS407, SS598 and SS693, all expressways in a W-E alignment.

They also built some rather long expressway connectors to "feed" on A3: SS534 (linking A3 with the Ionian coast in Sibari at the point where the "other" main N-S Calabrian route, SS106, approaches it), SS107 (to Paola -east- and Crotone -west, this section being one of the most challenging expressways in Calabria as it traverses the Sila mountains), SS280 (2+2 expressway linking A3 with Catanzaro) and, finally, SS682 (to Siderno).

SS682 is a very modern expressway, it has a 5km+ viaduct over a floodplain, lots of cuts and a long tunnel also.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 07:47 PM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pino
And how about that rumour about the 60 kms still to be approved? Consequence of the news story may just be that parts of that stretch will remain at 2+2 (which is alright) but without emergency lane and with some dangerous curves (not as good).
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza
No rumors, it is true. Those are concentrated in the south part of the road. It would be a shame if that part will remain with no emergency, but it will be in good company
That's certainly the case. Am I correct that the following parts will not be upgraded?
- km185 to km213
- km262 to km266
- km337 to km359
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Old August 5th, 2011, 11:30 PM   #2654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Economic development of Calabria was very much a rationale of the construction of the A3 in the 1960s. Never heard so in respect of roads like the A19 en A29, but it cannot be excluded.

Now I'm not Italian, but I am not aware of any present policy to revitalise the South through construction of new infrastructure. Of course, economic spin-off is presented when discussing projects like the Messina Bridge or the A3 reconstruction, but I do not think that it forms the key driver of the politicians involved. And just look at sheer numbers. Public investments into new infrastructure North of Napoli is much larger than investments into new infrastructure South of Napoli. When big ticket projects like the A3 and the Messina Bridge are complete, the North will outnumber the South by even larger figures.
You're right.
Just ONE of the reasons because the southern italy have worse economic condition is because of the lack of infrastructure that has been condemned.

________________________________________________________________
by the journal 'Calabria Ora':

The Salerno-Reggio? "A myth to debunk"
Said one-man-show, Enrico Bertolino

Enrico Bertolino, a veteran television from the stage of "Zelig" and "Glob-village of the Obscene", back in the theater with a show in which he analyzes the vicious circle of "clichés". Interviewed by 'Calabria Ora' said: "Generally I am interested in the contrast between North and South on the Calabrian I actually noticed some differences according to Milan are perceived incorrectly. As the myth of the Salerno - Reggio Calabria, which is always closed and the work still. We arrived here in Altomonte (city) this morning, but it was completely free and we arrived on time. Or have paved the way just for me or are there too exaggerated prejudices. Clichés speculates on which even the current government-run "
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte

Last edited by brick84; August 6th, 2011 at 01:45 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2011, 01:21 AM   #2655
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Brick please, do not post on international threads if you are not able to write at least in some basic english (like me...very basic)

It-s impossible for a foreigner to understand you
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Old August 6th, 2011, 04:20 PM   #2656
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I admit that my English is bad - and i'm very sorry - but so far nobody has told me they did not understand at least the sense of what I wrote. Untill now.
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A3 Salerno Reggio Calabria:
today other 2,5 km opened to traffic in province of Catanzaro.
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old August 6th, 2011, 04:22 PM   #2657
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We shouldn't be intolerant toward people who can't speak English perfectly, but otherwise we should check the grammar before posting if we have some doubts. Translate literally from the own language into English isn't the right thing to do and may be incomprehensible.
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Old August 6th, 2011, 10:34 PM   #2658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post


I admit that my English is bad - and i'm very sorry - but so far nobody has told me they did not understand at least the sense of what I wrote. Untill now.
It's just the translation of the article from Calabria Ora that is incomprehensible. Was it google-translated?
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Old August 6th, 2011, 11:39 PM   #2659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
We shouldn't be intolerant toward people who can't speak English perfectly, but otherwise we should check the grammar before posting if we have some doubts. Translate literally from the own language into English isn't the right thing to do and may be incomprehensible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It's just the translation of the article from Calabria Ora that is incomprehensible. Was it google-translated?
Yes, i used google translate to make faster. Often translate an article in few minutes is impossible, and so....

Then there are many words as 'carreggiata' or 'corsia' (for example) that i cannot translate, you now?

From now on I will pay more attention. Promise.
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old August 7th, 2011, 12:19 AM   #2660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
Yes, i used google translate to make faster. Often translate an article in few minutes is impossible, and so....

Then there are many words as 'carreggiata' or 'corsia' (for example) that i cannot translate, you now?
Carreggiata is carriageway, corsia is lane
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