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Old November 11th, 2011, 05:02 PM   #2841
Alqaszar
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Basically, the road will be follwing the general line of the SS 53 and could be considered as a generous re-routing of that old route. Since many former strade statale have been declassified as strade regionale or strade provinciale, the road could be the "nuova SS 53"...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 05:25 PM   #2842
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Actually most pollution and noise is on urban arterials because you can't put noise barriers and the street canyon effect traps emissions much more than along motorways. There is not one single location on the Dutch motorway network where PM10 concentration norms are exceeded, but numerous ones on urban roads, especially those carrying heavy bus, moped and truck traffic, even though traffic volumes and driving speeds are only a fraction of those on motorways.
Maybe it depends also from the territorial conformity. The Netherlands are mainly flat and close to the sea, where wind blows often. Here for example wind is rare and can happen to don't see the rain for 2 or 3 months like this summer. According to Euromobilty for the city of Parma, studies show that the highway pullutes as much as the whole city. This is the article:

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Inoltre un’autostrada adiacente alle aree urbane produce un livello di inquinamento pari al totale di traffico di una città. Lo studio realizzato per la prima volta da Cnr ed Euromobility ha “pesato” i contributi dell’inquinamento da autostrada. Solo nel Comune di Parma sono circa 37mila le automobili che percorrono ogni giorno l’Autostrada del Sole. A queste si aggiungono oltre 27mila mezzi pesanti. I chilometri giornalmente percorsi sono circa 550mila dalle automobili e 400mila dai mezzi pesanti. Ma solo il 28% delle automobili e appena il 17% dei mezzi pesanti entrano o escono al casello di Parma. Tutti gli altri però danno un contributo non indifferente in termini di inquinanti atmosferici: 300 chili di Pm10 e 3 tonnellate di Nox al giorno vengono prodotti per il traffico autostradale attorno alla città di Parma, con gravi ripercussioni sui livelli complessivi dell’area urbana.
It says that daily 37.000 cars passing through Parma and 27.000 trucks for a total of 550.000 km for cars and 400.000 for trucks. But only 28% of the cars and 17% of the trucks enter or exit from Parma tollbooth. All others vehicles passing through Parma product 300 Kg of Pm10 and 3 tons Nox daily around Parma, affecting on the urban area

Here you also see the graphics http://www.euromobility.org/document.../Bertuccio.pdf
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Old November 11th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #2843
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Note that emissions and concentrations are not the same.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #2844
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Anyway, that's a bad consequence of urban sprawl and failed land planning!
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Old November 11th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #2845
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I certainly want to buy a house with a view to a mortoway someday, put strong noise insulation in walls and windows, and install a webcam
I guess you're the exception...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:49 PM   #2846
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Anyway, that's a bad consequence of urban sprawl and failed land planning!
Neither.

Milano is one of the most important crossroads in Europe, and the metro area itself is quite heavily populated. The area concerned is an old village now part of the metro area. It is either there, or in a much heavily populated area that they would build the highway, whose need is indisputable.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:09 PM   #2847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alqaszar View Post
Basically, the road will be follwing the general line of the SS 53 and could be considered as a generous re-routing of that old route. Since many former strade statale have been declassified as strade regionale or strade provinciale, the road could be the "nuova SS 53"...
no it would be an autostrada
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #2848
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Neither.

Milano is one of the most important crossroads in Europe, and the metro area itself is quite heavily populated. The area concerned is an old village now part of the metro area. It is either there, or in a much heavily populated area that they would build the highway, whose need is indisputable.
I know, anyway the urban development should have been planned in a better way, in order to provide free strips for the future transportation needs (metros, railways, highways, expressways...).

The Pedemontana was thought 50 years ago...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #2849
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The Pedemontana was thought 50 years ago...
right, and the project didn't change so much in these 50 years. What changed instead is the territory, cause has been built where once there was nothing. And now the highway will pass through it........
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:59 PM   #2850
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Look at the map and suggest me a place to lay the Pedemontana where it could be located in a way that reasonably doesn't add much to its length nor defy its purposes nor shorten the area served.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #2851
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Pedemontana Lombarda should've been built decades ago. You can't just turn the entire countryside into an urbanized area without proper infrastructure.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:08 PM   #2852
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The Milan metropolitan region still has a lot of free space, but without any reasonable order. They could have built the same, but in different places.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:44 PM   #2853
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Look at the map and suggest me a place to lay the Pedemontana where it could be located in a way that reasonably doesn't add much to its length nor defy its purposes nor shorten the area served.
I suggest an alternative to this useless highway: increase and improve public transports to and from Milan, maybe to make arrive the underground untill Monza or Vimercate (another project discussed since many years and never done). Incentivate car pooling. Improve railroad system, maybe with new clean trains which aren't infested by ticks and louses. This cause most of the traffic is people going to Milan to work by car. On the Tangenziale Est near Agrate Brianza there's a Toolboth. Passing from it you have to pay 1.50 € (both directions - and I don't know if it's increased since VAT increased at 21%). It's made just for to earn money. Many many people to avoid to pay 3 euro daily passing from it, exit right before the toolboth for to enter at the first entry in Carugate (or Agrate Brianza coming from south) creating a lot of traffic on secondary streets during the rush hour. With tool prices increasing, with fuel price increasing, with insurance costs increasing the last intelligent thing is to build another highway. Especially now.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #2854
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The new metro branch to Vimercate is planned since decades, but there the urban sprawl without any reasonable order requires an underground infrastructure that wasn't necessary years ago...

Anyway in Lombardy since 2004 the regional railway services have been regularly improved.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:04 AM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
I suggest an alternative to this useless highway: increase and improve public transports to and from Milan, maybe to make arrive the underground untill Monza or Vimercate (another project discussed since many years and never done). Incentivate car pooling. Improve railroad system, maybe with new clean trains which aren't infested by ticks and louses.
NIMBY's always call something "useless". Even if traffic volumes are very high, alternate routes are congested, they still argue it's useless. The measures you summed up there are no more than additional investments which can never substitute a motorway.

Once there is a reasonably good public transportation system, you reach your maximum potential quickly. Especially outside city cores further investment to reduce road traffic have very little effect, at least not to the extent it can completely substitute highway construction. Besides that, the Pedemontana will mainly serve regional east-west traffic, not those commuting into downtown Milano.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:20 AM   #2856
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The new metro branch to Vimercate is planned since decades, but there the urban sprawl without any reasonable order requires an underground infrastructure that wasn't necessary years ago...
Until 1981 Vimercate was served by Tram to Milan, closed due opening of the station in Cologno Nord. It hasn't been properly a clever thing to soppress to take off this line

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Anyway in Lombardy since 2004 the regional railway services have been regularly improved.
Yes but is still underused. And increasing of 50% the price ticket in Milan doesn't incentivate people to use public transports
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:29 AM   #2857
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NIMBY's always call something "useless". Even if traffic volumes are very high, alternate routes are congested, they still argue it's useless.
Paved all land also, like this won't be congested anything. Doesn't matter if it destroy the few green areas there are left in this part of Lombardy, important is to build. I want to see you if they make pass an highway and a railroad in front of your home or you get your house expropriate like happened to my friends if you would be so much happy.....
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:32 AM   #2858
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I already have a 4 lane urban arterial and a 2-track railway in front of my house

Of course, an expropriation is never a happy thing for the residents. However, if carried out conform legal standards, it can be necessary to sacrifice the individual interest for the collective interest. Otherwise we wouldn't get anywhere (from power supply to sewage to roads to rail to shipping to housing).
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:46 AM   #2859
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I already have a 4 lane urban arterial and a 2-track railway in front of my house
But I guess there were already when you bought the house. We decided to live here, just because it's countryside, far from the noise of the town... it's little bit different when somebody decides to build an highway right next to you making lower the value of the dwellings. There is no refund for this.

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However, if carried out conform legal standards, it can be necessary to sacrifice the individual interest for the collective interest. Otherwise we wouldn't get anywhere (from power supply to sewage to roads to rail to shipping to housing).
Ehm...you forgot you are talking about Italy. The works didn't started yet and already 13 companies have been kicked out of the project cause suspected to be close to Mafia. You can't neither imaging which hidden interests there are under this highway. Starting from why the hell they want to pass right where happened the Seveso Disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seveso_disaster) an area with high risk for the health....
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:54 AM   #2860
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Basically, the road will be follwing the general line of the SS 53 and could be considered as a generous re-routing of that old route. Since many former strade statale have been declassified as strade regionale or strade provinciale, the road could be the "nuova SS 53"...
SS53? It's in Veneto between Vicenza and Portogruaro. What's its connection with Pedemontana Lombarda?
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