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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:55 AM   #2861
friedrichstrasse
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We decided to live here, just because it's countryside, far from the noise of the town...
That's the urban sprawl. You want to live in a rural area within a metropolitan region, and you suppose other people won't do the same.

I don't know how you move from there, but most people on those low density-places only use their car for everything, and pretend that new roads shouldn't be built...
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Old November 12th, 2011, 01:18 AM   #2862
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That's the urban sprawl. You want to live in a rural area within a metropolitan region, and you suppose other people won't do the same.

I don't know how you move from there, but most people on those low density-places only use their car for everything, and pretend that new roads shouldn't be built...
Nobody here want that highway. And 1.287 inhabitants for kilometer/square is not properly a low density place. But so far, the traffic here is related to population. To don't use a car is simple, cause if you want to go to Milan, you can drive to Cologno Nord and take the metro it's 10 Km far away. You can drive to Monza to take the train, it's 10 Km far away. You can drive to Carnate and take the train. It's 5 Km far away. Or you can simply to drive to nowhere and take buses in the town. Problem is that few people do it, cause they are lazy to take buses (which are often half empty) and prefere to drive to Milan, which is 25 Km far away. Bemoaning that there aren't enough parking place there.... Traffic jams there are only during rush hour (07.30/09.00 - 17.00-18.30) if you start from here at 09.30, you are in Milan in 20 minutes cause the Tangenziale Est is almost empty...
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Old November 12th, 2011, 01:33 AM   #2863
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The same old recycled argument: transit good, people is not.

I know quite well the area.

The Pedemontana will carry mainly traffic from Como, Varese and Ticino to the eastern areas of Milano. There is no way travelling east-west could EVER be competitive with public transportation, ALL routes naturally converge to Milano. And even the local roads.

Whilst you have many arterials and streets from the old walls of Milano to the northern comuni, there is just a patchwork of streets on E-W direction.

Also, transit in Lombardia is a sinkhole, and still carries less than 1/5 of the amount of people traveling by car, and less than 15% of total passenger-km.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:10 AM   #2864
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The Pedemontana won't be a continuous highway, but an other bad patchwork, because of urban sprawl...
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:10 AM   #2865
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Let's be realistic here: Pedemontana is badly needed. Even if the A4 through Milan is empty, you'll still save a lot of time and money cutting it.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:14 AM   #2866
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The Pedemontana won't be a continuous highway, but an other bad patchwork, because of urban sprawl...
No.

It will be a continuum E-W connector.

The "patches" are just a form of putting independent ring roads (badly needed to free cities from passing traffic) on the same project (same name) so it fit the same funding package.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:15 AM   #2867
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I do agree with Pedemontana, I'd have preferred that the urbanisation had been more ordered. We could have had a straighter Pedemontana and a better urban environment.

@Suburbanist: Pedemontana won't be continuous, there will be a gap through SS 35 and no connection with Malpensa airport, as it was supposed to be.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:22 AM   #2868
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Look this map, what you said would have sense if Bergamo was linked directly to Como, or that the Pedemontana would follow the same track instead to be cut in two parts. Part of the road will follow the SS35, a road which is already busy most of the time. Like this instead you create a new highway at 10 Km far from already one existent which will follow the same direction. Vimercate is where A51 is linked with Pedemontana (that green point). Going often to Como to take the Como-Chiasso I searched the best route for to save time/kilometers. Taking the A51, A4 and A9 are more or less 70 Km. Taking the SS 35 are 50 Km (and I save 5 euro of tall). It's shorter only of 20 Km. And here we are talking of an highway which will cost € 4.115.000.000 for only 87 Km! It will be the most expansive road in Europe. And for what, 20 Km shorter?
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:28 AM   #2869
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And for to make the part of SS35 congruous of Highway standards, you have to close it and rebuild totally for the interessed lenght. You know what does it mean? It's like to close the Como-Chiasso during holiday time. And this wouldn't solve the problem. cause before and after the lenght interessed by the highway, will be the same road of always, just with more problems due the interconnection with the highway
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:35 AM   #2870
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Quote:
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I do agree with Pedemontana, I'd have preferred that the urbanisation had been more ordered. We could have had a straighter Pedemontana and a better urban environment.
Right, Pedemontana had to be built when it was projected over 40 years ago, now you have to mess up half of the territory.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 03:56 AM   #2871
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http://www.pedemontana.com/googlemap.php
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Old November 12th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #2872
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Great map
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #2873
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Starting from why the hell they want to pass right where happened the Seveso Disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seveso_disaster) an area with high risk for the health....
Regarding that article there are no significant health hazards today.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #2874
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Regarding that article there are no significant health hazards today.
For how the things stand now yes, cause the whole area has been covered and converted into a green park. But if you dig there, nobody knows with certainty what would happen, it's like to dig on a dump after some years has been closed. With the difference that here we are talking of something dangerous as much as asbestos...
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Old November 12th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #2875
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And it's not properly right to say there aren't health hazard today

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/...l.pmed.0050161
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Old November 12th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #2876
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Will that section of SS35 became a green-sign motorway?
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Old November 12th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #2877
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It should, cause they should rebuild the SS35 in that part. Actually the SS 35 is a 4 lane street with 80 Km/h maximum speed
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Old November 12th, 2011, 03:08 PM   #2878
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No idea, anyway it would be the first time in Italy of a state road being rebuilt into a highway. This part will easily become overcrowded...

Last edited by friedrichstrasse; November 12th, 2011 at 03:16 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 03:26 PM   #2879
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No idea, anyway it would be the first time in Italy of a state road being rebuilt into a highway. This part will easily become overcrowded...
No, there is also RA17 Villesse - Gorizia. It is a "strada extraurbana secondaria - category C" with 80 kph speed limit and it will be rebuilt as real motorway by 2012.
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Old November 12th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #2880
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To rebuild it, they have to close the superstrada SS35. It means that around 4000 vehicles/hour will be deviated on the secondary streets.

This video (unfortunately I just found in italian) shows what could happen when the Pedemontana will be working in the part near Bovisio Masciago
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