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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:26 PM   #3401
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Laboratori Nazionali del Gran Sasso
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:34 PM   #3402
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Quote:
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I first hear about that. What kind of laboratories are they?
They do research on stuff that needs to be protected from outer space radiation, or something like that.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:37 PM   #3403
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I first hear about that. What kind of laboratories are they?
They're one of the two sides involved in the famous faster-than-light neutrinos some months ago. CERN at Geneva sent a stream of neutrinos directly to the detector in INFN Labs under Gran Sasso.

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They do research on stuff that needs to be protected from outer space radiation, or something like that.
Exactly. Rocks tend to absorb cosmic rays (charged particles from outer space) so the experiments inside the labs have a higher signal-to-noise ratio.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 09:43 PM   #3404
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I see; very interesting.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:07 PM   #3405
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 11:00 PM   #3406
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Last September the former Italian minister of education Mariastella Gelimini did a faux pass saying that neutrinos travelled faster than light through a tunnel built by Italians between Gran Sasso mountain and CERN in Geneve (750km of tunnel). That generated a huge scandal about ignorance of our political class.

Now, if you type on Google "Gran Sasso tunnel", most of results are jokes about this fact.





Neutrinos overtaking on the Gran Sasso tunnel.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 08:20 PM   #3407
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i knew about laboratories, but i had no idea about that underground junction (i have passed it through other tube )
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 08:24 PM   #3408
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edit wrong thread
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Old March 24th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #3409
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I must admit I never saw an unprotected railway crossing in Italy,
There are unprotected highway crossings in Italy. Not on major RFI lines, but sometimes at smaller railways.

The worst offender is Circumetnea.

Example in Linguaglossa. There are many more, but Google Street View doesn't cover the back streets where it happens.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #3410
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That's whitout barriers, not really unprotected.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #3411
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Lights is all you need really.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #3412
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The 6+ km Guinza tunnel, inaugurated in 1992 and closed since then, is an Italian road shame. It was bored as part of European road E78, which is supposed to connect Thyrrenian and Adriatic seas (Grosseto - Fano) with a continuous 4-laned superstrada.

Yesterday an illegal lumber mill was found and cleared up by Carabinieri inside the Guinza tunnel:
http://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/pesa..._abusiva.shtml

The article (in Italian) contains this sad but very keen line: "This piece of Fano-Grosseto road will be restored to its purpose: none".
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Old March 25th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #3413
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It links these two points: http://maps.google.ch/maps?saddr=Gui...p=1&sz=18&z=13 (look also at StreetView and Panoramio)

Any plan to complete that road?

*********

Another abandonet road, this time apparently nearly finished and usable with little extra money. Google StreetView has even visited it: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Manduri...115.71,,0,-2.2
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Old March 25th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #3414
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Yes, long term plans to link Taranto and Lecce.

Indeed, the existing route is horrible: huge traffic, and because of the never-completed plans, the existing route was also not upgraded.

It's faster to travel between two cities via Brindisi, a much longer route.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #3415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
It links these two points: http://maps.google.ch/maps?saddr=Gui...p=1&sz=18&z=13 (look also at StreetView and Panoramio)

Any plan to complete that road?
Plans were not completely abandoned, but focus on the area shifted toward the Umbria-Marche "Quadrilater" project: linking Peruggia-Fabriano-Tolentino-Fogliono.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 11:46 PM   #3416
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Works on the E78 also continues slowly. It won't take very long before you can drive from Grosseto to Sansepolcro via superstrade (Grosseto - Siena is u/c, Siena - Bettole is complete, then on to Arezzo via A1 and a connection east being u/c). On the eastern side of the mountains there is a decent expressway too.

The problems remains, however that these connections have little merit absent a decent mountain crossing, which is where this road shame at Guinza comes into play. I'd say that it would be relatively straightforward to complete the second tube and the access road if it wasn't for a renewed debate about the use of a complete E78 proper. For the time being, road authorities seem to try to avoid that debate. And probably with some reason: I am inclined to follow those that see much more merit in the East-West connectors of the Quadrilatero Marche-Umbria not too far to the South. Which are much less in the middle of nowhere.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #3417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Works on the E78 also continues slowly. It won't take very long before you can drive from Grosseto to Sansepolcro via superstrade (Grosseto - Siena is u/c, Siena - Bettole is complete, then on to Arezzo via A1 and a connection east being u/c). On the eastern side of the mountains there is a decent expressway too.

The problems remains, however that these connections have little merit absent a decent mountain crossing, which is where this road shame at Guinza comes into play. I'd say that it would be relatively straightforward to complete the second tube and the access road if it wasn't for a renewed debate about the use of a complete E78 proper. For the time being, road authorities seem to try to avoid that debate. And probably with some reason: I am inclined to follow those that see much more merit in the East-West connectors of the Quadrilatero Marche-Umbria not too far to the South. Which are much less in the middle of nowhere.
I would first connect this tunnel with a 2 lanes road, at least to make it functional

In a second time the second tunnel can be bored and another carriageway added, traffic anyway will always be hardly significant
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Old March 26th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #3418
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I would first connect this tunnel with a 2 lanes road, at least to make it functional
Apparently they can't because after the Mont Blanc tunnel fire, by Italian laws new tunnels longer than a certain amount of km cannot be single bore, and Guinza is longer than the threshold. Two tubes or bust!
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Old March 26th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #3419
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I suppose the law requires emergency exits (a corridor under the carriageway like in the Mont Blanc tunnel, a parallel safety tunnel, or frequent exits to the surface), not a second bore usable by traffic.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 09:53 AM   #3420
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It's the Western access road (the connector between the tunnel and the E45) that has been keeping the tunnel stalled for ages now. That is ecologically sensitive area in which a 2x2-road will need to be constructed. ANAS has had that bit "in progettazione" for ages now, and that is where a breakthrough is well overdue.

If that breakthrough requires the E78 between the E45 and the tunnel's Eastern portal will be 1x1, then so be it. But I've got a feeling that the powers that be are not really interested at all at the moment.
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