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Old March 26th, 2012, 10:01 AM   #3421
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I suppose the law requires emergency exits (a corridor under the carriageway like in the Mont Blanc tunnel, a parallel safety tunnel, or frequent exits to the surface), not a second bore usable by traffic.
I don't know, that what I read in the newspapers. Since the project already contained 2 tubes, I guess there is no point in building for a safety tunnel just to be able to open the infrastructure.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 10:22 AM   #3422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Apparently they can't because after the Mont Blanc tunnel fire, by Italian laws new tunnels longer than a certain amount of km cannot be single bore, and Guinza is longer than the threshold. Two tubes or bust!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I suppose the law requires emergency exits (a corridor under the carriageway like in the Mont Blanc tunnel, a parallel safety tunnel, or frequent exits to the surface), not a second bore usable by traffic.
Under the 2004/54/EG guideline, two traffic tubes are required if the tunnel carries more than 20.000 vehicles per day.

Emergency exits are required each 500 meters and they must allow an exit to outside of the tunnel. In practice this means at least an escape tube or a second traffic tube is necessary if the tunnel is longer than 500 m. An escape tube is not necessary if there are two traffic tubes with access between both every 500 m.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #3423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Under the 2004/54/EG guideline, two traffic tubes are required if the tunnel carries more than 20.000 vehicles per day.

Emergency exits are required each 500 meters and they must allow an exit to outside of the tunnel. In practice this means at least an escape tube or a second traffic tube is necessary if the tunnel is longer than 500 m. An escape tube is not necessary if there are two traffic tubes with access between both every 500 m.
Than it's just better to make the second tunnel and be done with it.

It will requires money, lots of it. Something Italy is quite short at the moment

I guess TomTom will not have to update the maps in the area for quite a long time
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Old March 26th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #3424
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Some pics of Guinza tunnel:












A civil demostration by local politicians and residents against this shameful waste of money:













I think a new thread named "Road shames of your country: abandoned and never completed roads and motorways" would be interesting (and unfortunately also very long). What mods think about?

Last edited by italystf; March 26th, 2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #3425
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Is it abandoned part of SS73 bis ?? http://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Guinza,...C5%82ochy&z=16
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Old March 26th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #3426
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Yes. I can't find the other entrance of the tunnel but it should be near Parnacciano (San Giustino)

EDIT: Bing maps draws the entire tunnel.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #3427
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It's here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
It links these two points: http://maps.google.ch/maps?saddr=Gui...p=1&sz=18&z=13 (look also at StreetView and Panoramio)
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Old March 26th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #3428
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It will likely cost a boatload of money to make that tunnel operational. It likely requires complete renovation and modernizing the tunnel equipment (if there was even anything installed there).

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; March 27th, 2012 at 03:23 PM.
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Old March 26th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #3429
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That's sadly so true. Twenty years have passed now, no maintenance at all...

Speaking about unfinished tunnels in the region I come from (Marche), there's Cornello tunnel:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traforo_del_Cornello
http://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/mace...vergogna.shtml

So so so annoying.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #3430
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What's up with this project? It seems that most of works (tunnels, bridges) were made many years ago. And according to this new GE iamge it seems to be that theay are working on it again. Will it be the SS7?
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Old March 27th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #3431
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I think - but I'm not sure - that it should be a linking road to SS 401:
http://www.infraterr.it/site/redazio...-castelgrande/

I have no idea about the state of the works, though.


On another subject, layout of the future Albenga-Predosa motorway, between Piemonte and Liguria, has been presented:
http://www.ivg.it/2012/03/ips-ecco-i...ita-da-12-mln/
http://www.ivg.it/wp-content/uploads...-27.03.121.pdf
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Old April 1st, 2012, 12:16 PM   #3432
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In a Strade e Autostrade article, I read that CIPE recently approved the construction of a section of the Collegamento A3-A14, notably the section between Frigento and San Teodoro.

Now I was wondering what this Collegamento is. The town of Frigento seems too far east to refer to a completion of the Raccordo Autostradale Salerno - Avellino, yet too far west to refer to a revival of the old plans for a superstrada Candela - Potenza - Lauria. So what's exactly going on? And if this is part of a completely new A3-A16 connector (as opposed to the existing SA-AV), what is the general status of that project. Any website links?
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Old April 1st, 2012, 01:50 PM   #3433
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http://www.ottopagine.net/common/interna.aspx?id=23073

It's a road that was to be built as a "compensation" for 1980 earthquake. 30 years have passed now
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Old April 1st, 2012, 03:19 PM   #3434
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Thanks. Looks like a project with local impact only, particularly if they do not intend to extend the route beyond Lioni. And though technically a Tirreno-Adriatico crossing, it's so far West on the A16 that I cannot really see it used by North-South traffic.

Now if only those old plans for a Candela - Potenza - Lauria revived, you might be in for an exciting new Tirreno-Adriatico crossing. Though I don't want to know how they ever intended to construct a superstrada through the mountains between Potenza and Laurea in the first place.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 05:59 PM   #3435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Now if only those old plans for a Candela - Potenza - Lauria revived, you might be in for an exciting new Tirreno-Adriatico crossing. Though I don't want to know how they ever intended to construct a superstrada through the mountains between Potenza and Laurea in the first place.
I think such a route won't be built in the next half century. There are too many routes in advanced planning now, I read somewhere that banks cannot support all of them so only few can be built in the next 15-20 years. Brebemi, Pedemontana lombarda, corda molle, A12, Valdastico south, pedemontana veneta, Cremona-Mantova, Cispadana, Broni-Mortara, Genoa node, Molise motorway, only few can survive
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Old April 1st, 2012, 07:01 PM   #3436
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I think that Candela - Lauria, however nice it looks on the map as a connector, is never going to fly. The current upgrade of the Ionica is more than enough as a connector between the Tyrrenian coast and the Adriatic coast. They might, however, extend the current superstrada Foggia - Candela to reach Potenza. From Potenza, you already have the Raccordo Autostradale to reach the A3 and the Tyrrenian coast.

In terms of funding, I can see your point as long as you are talking about project financing and toll roads. But roads that are on the Anas list of future projects are not as reliant on the availability of bank financing. They are much more reliant on Italy's access to the sovereign bond market and, accordingly, on continuation of the government policy that it is justified to commit more infrastructure funds in order to improve access to regions like the Mezzogiorno in times where just about every other budget is being cut.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 10:26 AM   #3437
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I think the era of big project entirely funded by ANAS is going to an end. The modernizations of A3 and statale Ionica are draining resources very fast and for a long amount of time, and I doubt ANAS can afford other similar projects in the mid-term.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 11:06 AM   #3438
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Probably true. But probably not too much of an issue either, since I do not see an awful lot of further ANAS projects that would drain resources in that fashion. The projects remaining in the ANAS books are much smaller. Though one can of course never exclude that new huge projects are (re-)invented by ANAS, e.g. Candela - Lauria or something like Nuova Romea or the SS3bis if either of them fell through as a project financing.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 11:14 AM   #3439
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Quote:
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Probably true. But probably not too much of an issue either, since I do not see an awful lot of further ANAS projects that would drain resources in that fashion.
Well, not in the scale of A3 and Ionica, but there are indeed a lot of medium-sized projects going on: Quadrilatero, E78 Grosseto-Fano, and a certain number of projects in Sardinia and Latium, just to mention some of them.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:01 PM   #3440
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The nice thing about those medium-scale projects is that one can anticipated completion within a few years time (unless your project passes Guinza of course). On the Quadrilatero, they are making good progress on the expressways in particular, the E78 between Grosseto and Siena is progressing, ditto for the works in Sardegna. ANAS would, indeed, have to complete those projects before embarking on new projects, but after around 2020 there would be room for some new midsize projects.

For what it's worth, by the way, the Quadrilatero is not a full ANAS project. It is operated by a project company. ANAS is a shareholder of the Quadrilatero, but they are joined by regional entities (see their website).
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