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Old April 5th, 2012, 09:04 AM   #3461
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Where is that?

Try to use Google Street View on it.
Here (more or less):

http://maps.google.it/maps?q=roma&hl...2,1.87,,0,8.42

Quote:
By the way, does it make sense to avoid the A4 in Milano in rush hours by using the eastern and western bypasses (A51, A50)?
I really don't think so. A51 and A50 are often more crowded than urban A4.

Last edited by g.spinoza; April 5th, 2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #3462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I didn't know that was an expressway (only a section to the north is orange-coloured). Can you post a link (Google Maps) from where to where it's grade-separated?
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #3463
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Not really, I've never been there. What I know is that a certain part of that road (the infamous "sopraelevata") is going to be demolished and replaced with a new route, partly in tunnel.

EDIT: if you understand some Italian (or use google translate ) here is the link on Wikipedia:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangenziale_Est_di_Roma
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #3464
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romani cry-babies... there is nothing wrong with the elevated expressway there, it shouldn't even be partially closed at night.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #3465
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
romani cry-babies... there is nothing wrong with the elevated expressway there, it shouldn't even be partially closed at night.
Eheh, you'd think the same if you bought a house there before the expressway was built and afterwards it lost half its value.

To see how the sopraelevata looks like, take a look at this clip from "Fantozzi":
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #3466
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In such cases, the houses at the highway level or below should be acquired by the government, noise barriers put up and everybody else will just have a view from the highway.

Can't see how it is different than having a major railway passing in front.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #3467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In such cases, the houses at the highway level or below should be acquired by the government, noise barriers put up and everybody else will just have a view from the highway.

Can't see how it is different than having a major railway passing in front.
It's not very different, but I never said otherwise.

However, the sopraelevata part is not very long - 1 km or so.

EDiT: Here another video, not from comedy movies:
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #3468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
Can't see how it is different than having a major railway passing in front.
Rail: only noise
Highway: noise + toxic air pollution (higher possibility of have cancer in the future)
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #3469
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And maybe also the fact that rail traffic is not continuous, while highway traffic is.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #3470
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This is however better in my opinion as long as it is not too loud.

Probably Sopraelevata is always jammed, right? I remember when I came to Rome with the train and this was first real urban thing noticed - a massive elevated road over railway, full of non-moving vehicles in the middle of the day.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #3471
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Yes, being one of very few "fast" connections within the city, it is often jammed.
Its nighttime closure is due to the noise: people living nearby (and as you can see in the "Fantozzi" video I posted, nearby means REAL nearby) couldn't sleep at all.

New Circonvallazione should open in few months, though, and Sopraelevata be dismantled. It will be, fortunately, only a bad memory from the past.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #3472
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lol @ the video.

I love italian sopraelevata's.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #3473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
I didn't know that was an expressway (only a section to the north is orange-coloured). Can you post a link (Google Maps) from where to where it's grade-separated?
http://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=Cir...sz=18&t=m&z=12
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Old April 5th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #3474
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Grazie. What's the difference between the orange and yellow parts? (I'll look at them in Google Street View, but I ask anyway)
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Old April 6th, 2012, 01:09 AM   #3475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
Grazie. What's the difference between the orange and yellow parts? (I'll look at them in Google Street View, but I ask anyway)
Pratically nothing. Google isn't always accurate.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #3476
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In the circonvallazione interna route there is also the tunnel "Giovanni XXIII" which is a very long tunnel to be in a urban environment. almost 3 km
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Old April 8th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #3477
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Pratically nothing. Google isn't always accurate.
Looks like the orange part has hard shoulders, so it's wider and more comfortable to drive on. But I don't like those gas stations with inexistent acceleration- and deceleration lanes, especially since there're hard shoulders you could use.
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Old April 8th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #3478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Looks like the orange part has hard shoulders, so it's wider and more comfortable to drive on. But I don't like those gas stations with inexistent acceleration- and deceleration lanes, especially since there're hard shoulders you could use.
consider the oldest parts were built for the 1960 olimpic games...
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Old April 8th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #3479
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Are there plans to make it a full ring?
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Old April 8th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #3480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
Are there plans to make it a full ring?
Yes, the so called 'Circonvallazione verde'.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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