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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:13 PM   #3661
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Love the videos, guys


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauz® View Post
Sorry! I wrote in Italian just to make brick84 understand more clearly.
I don't know how good does he speak English, but the fact he's constantly using Google Translate suggests me he finds it hard, so I spoke to him in Italian.

Traslation: "you make an ass of ourselves"

Literally "figura di merda" it's "shitty figure", or "shitty impression".


It's a very common expression in Italy. To say it in a more elegant way, you can use the expression "brutta figura" ("sorry figure", "ugly impression").
That's cool. The wonderful people from the Land of Walnut are truly blessed with this glorious gift given upon by the State, and they lived happily ever after, and that is what matters.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:18 PM   #3662
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Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
no, there is not. nor in any other language I am aware of.

It's a 100% italian concept

Any more-or-less likely translations do not really capture the italian concept
"Keeping up appearances" may be the idea....
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:37 PM   #3663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
"Keeping up appearances" may be the idea....
I read once a book written by an Englishman living in Italy... he stressed the differences between the English "good impression" and the Italian "bella figura". English uses "good"; Italian uses "bella", which literally means "good-looking, handsome, beautiful". Moral vs. aesthetical (or aesthetic? never understood the difference)
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:39 PM   #3664
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I also read in "the xenophobic guide to Italy" that the Italians love the order and calmness in England, while the English in turn are fascinated by the noise and colours in Italy...

I've got a whole collection to these guides...
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:43 PM   #3665
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Point is, he was right
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:50 PM   #3666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I read once a book written by an Englishman living in Italy... he stressed the differences between the English "good impression" and the Italian "bella figura". English uses "good"; Italian uses "bella", which literally means "good-looking, handsome, beautiful". Moral vs. aesthetical (or aesthetic? never understood the difference)
Not an Englishman at all, it was Italian columnist and Britain-lover Beppe Severgnini.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:54 PM   #3667
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Not an Englishman at all, it was Italian columnist and Britain-lover Beppe Severgnini.
Tobias Jones, "The dark heart of Italy", 2003, Faber and Faber, London.

I know what I read.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:55 PM   #3668
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I read once a book written by an Englishman living in Italy... he stressed the differences between the English "good impression" and the Italian "bella figura". English uses "good"; Italian uses "bella", which literally means "good-looking, handsome, beautiful". Moral vs. aesthetical (or aesthetic? never understood the difference)
To make a good impression (the first time you're meeting someone, for example) goes beyond appearances to being a good conversationalist, funny and intelligent... that sort of thing. Nothing to do with morals, I'd say, as long as you're not blatantly awful.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:57 PM   #3669
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I also read in "the xenophobic guide to Italy" that the Italians love the order and calmness in England, while the English in turn are fascinated by the noise and colours in Italy...

I've got a whole collection to these guides...
I'll bet you do!
(Sorry, couldn't resist. I myself picked up 1000 Years of Annoying the French at a used-book sale recently. Haven't read it yet....)
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:58 PM   #3670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
To make a good impression (the first time you're meeting someone, for example) goes beyond appearances to being a good conversationalist, funny and intelligent... that sort of thing. Nothing to do with morals, I'd say, as long as you're not blatantly awful.
I think the author meant that Italians tend to privilege the looks rather than deeper values. Something to do with protestant vs catholic education: protestants value hard work and responsiblity, within catholicism you can do whatever you want, as long as you publicly state you're ashamed (even if you're not).
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:01 PM   #3671
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If in Europe someone buy an expensive car or fashionable clothes is because he or she really like them. In Italy it's often because 'other people do that' and dressing in a certain way it's often seen as a moral obligation. Appearing to be thrifty is felt as shameful. Often is easier to criticize someone for his appearances rather than for his actual behavior. How many times we make fun of Germans that are recognizable on the riviera because they wear socks with sandals...
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:02 PM   #3672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Tobias Jones, "The dark heart of Italy", 2003, Faber and Faber, London.

I know what I read.
I apologize.

But then Jones's theory was faithfully reproduced (plagiarized?) by Mr Severgnini in his 2007 book...
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:04 PM   #3673
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I apologize.

But then Jones's theory was faithfully reproduced (plagiarized?) by Mr Severgnini in his 2007 book...
Severgnini never gave birth to an original idea in his whole career. One of the most overrated journalists in Italy, the leader of them being Zucconi, of course.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:20 PM   #3674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza

I think the author meant that Italians tend to privilege the looks rather than deeper values. Something to do with protestant vs catholic education: protestants value hard work and responsiblity, within catholicism you can do whatever you want, as long as you publicly state you're ashamed (even if you're not).
It's true that Protestantism is more 'capitalistically' oriented than Catholicism and give more importance to hard working and personal success.
However Catholicism believes in a divine justice after death (opposite to the Calvinistic ideal of the predestination) so moral behavior should be important.
Off course certain Catholic clergymen did and still are doing nasty things, but that's another story.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:07 PM   #3675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf
If in Europe someone buy an expensive car or fashionable clothes is because he or she really like them. In Italy it's often because 'other people do that' and dressing in a certain way it's often seen as a moral obligation. Appearing to be thrifty is felt as shameful. Often is easier to criticize someone for his appearances rather than for his actual behavior. How many times we make fun of Germans that are recognizable on the riviera because they wear socks with sandals...
Don't tell me about Germans and their ******* sandals! A German threw a sandal at my head at an Austrian hoempapa party once, because I thanked him for dying for our sins...
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:16 PM   #3676
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Did he wear a robe and a long beard too?
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:25 PM   #3677
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No, but some people outside Germany and Austria wear them as well, and in Holland and England they call them Jesus sandals.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 07:48 PM   #3678
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Last weekend (Sunday to be exact) I drove through two of the major alpine tunnels of Italy. It always hurt to spend almost € 70 in two tunnels in one day.

But it was worth...

In the past, I think you could buy a return ticket to use in the Monte Bianco and Grand San Bernardo tunnels within 7 days, but apparently now it is limited to return through the same tunnel.

I wish they used the same techniques they used on the approach road to the Grand San Bernardo elsewhere in Italy to keep mountain passes opened year-round.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 07:52 PM   #3679
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You can buy a return ticket and use either Mont Blanc or Frejus.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 07:55 PM   #3680
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You can buy a return ticket and use either Mont Blanc or Frejus.

Yes, but the Great St. Bernard is out of the scheme!

With minor updates on the access roads, the Great St. Bernard could be a much more used route.
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