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Old June 27th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #3701
g.spinoza
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In the next century we will be flying, not driving.
According to Back to the Future II we should be flying in 2015... still 3 years left
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Old June 28th, 2012, 01:08 AM   #3702
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in Croatia we have a byword for this, which would sound something like "oh my mouth, praise myself"
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Old June 28th, 2012, 04:13 AM   #3703
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Originally Posted by Attus View Post
So in the leftmost lane you must drive between 90-100 km/h?
That's not so hard, it would be harder to drive 95-100 km/h. The motorway looks great. They should sign Lugano instead of Chiasso though.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #3704
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That's not so hard, it would be harder to drive 95-100 km/h. The motorway looks great. They should sign Lugano instead of Chiasso though.
Why? Chiasso comes before Lugano and it's the border town. Besides it's clearlys marked "CH"
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Old June 28th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #3705
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But Lugano is the nearest main city. Or even Bellinzona, where there's the split A2/A13, IIRC.

Like on A32 they should sign
LYON (F)
BARDONECCHIA

and on A10
NICE (F)
VENTIMIGLIA

and so on...
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Old June 28th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #3706
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Foreign key cities from Italy are signposted sporadically only, and starts usually close to the border. Key destinations are usually border crossings itself, for example Brenner, Chiasso, Monte Bianco, Ventimiglia, Trieste and Frejus. Only closer to borders you get signs with Lione, Innsbruck and MŘnchen.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #3707
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Lione is signposted from Torino onwards (and on distance signs on the A4 Milano - Torino too), but that is pretty much the only city signposted from further out.

And Sempione is a Swiss focal point signposted from pretty far out (even though that's technical only, as the pass is just across the border).
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Old June 28th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #3708
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I think that has to do with whether the border town is known or not.

Brennero, for instance, is well known in Italy as a geographic place (although a small place itself).

Ventemiglia as well (whereas Menton is not that known, and Monaco (the city-state) would rise confusion with Monaco da Baviera).
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Old June 28th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #3709
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If you confuse Monaco with Munich on A10 or by Brennero, you shouldn't go to either of them.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #3710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think that has to do with whether the border town is known or not.

Brennero, for instance, is well known in Italy as a geographic place (although a small place itself).

Ventemiglia as well (whereas Menton is not that known, and Monaco (the city-state) would rise confusion with Monaco da Baviera).
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If you confuse Monaco with Munich on A10 or by Brennero, you shouldn't go to either of them.
In fact this is not the point. We simply don't care what's on the other side of the border
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Old June 28th, 2012, 07:32 PM   #3711
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In fact this is not the point. We simply don't care what's on the other side of the border
Vatican?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #3712
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To a large degree, the Italian approach around the border follows from their standard approach to selecting focal points. There is a strong focus on the place that happens to be the terminus of the route, whether that's Rome or Gravellona Toce. It pretty much follows that towns abroad are hardly ever being signposted, as they are beyond the terminus of the route.

Anyway, for domestic routes within Italy it depends on the size of the town that is the terminus of the route whether or not I like it. If the route heads to Rome, the fact that Rome is selected as the focal point is always tolerable. If the terminus is Gravellona Toce, many people don't really like it. In cross-border situations, the approach is comparable. Ventimiglia, Como and Trieste are not too bad as a focal point; the big Alpine passes and tunnels like Brenner, Frejus and Simplon are not either. But every now and then you run into a situation where you feel that it is a shame that towns abroad are not signposted more prominently.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #3713
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So far I think I've agreed with all that you have posted on this forum...
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Old June 29th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #3714
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Hopefully not because I'm stating the obvious ... Might be time for a nice and controversial statement. Something about the UK, going metric and driving on the right?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #3715
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As me being half Dutch, half English, living in Austria and being in the road in a van all over Europe, I would welcome the idea of the UK driving on the right, joining the metric system on their roads, and even them joining the euro.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #3716
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how do you, Italians, pronounce Frejus?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #3717
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how do you, Italians, pronounce Frejus?
└ la franšaise, but very rarely I've heard, from people with low education, Freh-ee-oos.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #3718
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
└ la franšaise, but very rarely I've heard, from people with low education, Freh-ee-oos.
my ex-boss used to say Freyus it was freaking me out
but there are also some traps. for instance Ajaccio - i was completely insane when i heard people reading it Ayacho, and completely pissed when i've realized it was correct. today french pronounciation of it sounds horrible to me (and miseducated ).
or Jonquera - again my ex-boss read it a la franšaise, freakiung me out, but then i have realized that there is also catalan pronounciation beside castilian
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #3719
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my ex-boss used to say Freyus it was freaking me out
Was he Italian?

Quote:
but there are also some traps. for instance Ajaccio - i was completely insane when i heard people reading it Ayacho, and completely pissed when i've realized it was correct. today french pronounciation of it sounds horrible to me (and miseducated ).
Ajaccio's and Corsica's culture, language and history are Italian. In Italian the "j" doesn't exist, but in many dialect it does and it's pronounced like "i" (ee).

Quote:
or Jonquera - again my ex-boss read it a la franšaise, freakiung me out, but then i have realized that there is also catalan pronounciation beside castilian
I always pronounced it French-style
I hate the Spanish "j", it sounds like phlegm.

Last edited by g.spinoza; June 29th, 2012 at 09:36 PM. Reason: typo
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #3720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I hate the Spanish "j", it sounds like phlegm.
People from Nova Gorica (hofburg) pronounce "g" similarly (Nova Horica, hofburh, h.spinoza ).

Last edited by Verso; June 29th, 2012 at 10:22 PM.
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