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Old July 17th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #3761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Yes, but having said that... Running costs are unbelievably high. There is the maintenance, fire crews, convoy-pilots, and all the staff, both Italian and French that need to be paid.
They are even building a second Fréjus tube, although single lane.

I fear that the Simplon road will become even more attractive...another reason not to like this toll increase!
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Old July 17th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #3762
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Are they replacing the entire viaduct? It looks to me they've built some new bridge piers, perhaps also replaced the bridge decks? That basically means an entirely new viaduct.
As I remember from previous years, main deck and columns will remain although they will be refurbished. Smaller columns will be built new because new motorway leads in in different directions after viaduct.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #3763
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Yes, but having said that... Running costs are unbelievably high. There is the maintenance, fire crews, convoy-pilots, and all the staff, both Italian and French that need to be paid.
Let see some numbers for 2011:
http://www.aiscat.it/pubblicazioni/d...im3-4_2011.pdf
(page 15)
year
AADT total (truck traffic)

2010 2011
Mont Blanc 4945 (1609) 5113 (1704)
Frejus 4507 (2058) 4494 (2064)

Let say that there is an average about 30 € per light vehicle and 250 € for heavy vehicle (probably most take cheaper return ticket) then tunnels take everyday 100k € + 420k € = 520k € (Mont Blanc) / 75k € + 515k € = 590k €.

Deduce VAT and tunnels get annual about:

150 million € - Mont Blanc tunnel

190 million € - Frejus tunnel



Those are not real numbers but I think they are not far away. Now tell me, that both companies who run those tunnels, which repaid all construction debts years if not decades ago are so financially desperate that they need to increase tolls for 20 %.

And cost for maintenance is not small, but I doubt that they reach even 100 million per tunnel let alone more.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #3764
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From that article you can read that:

(a) there is a protocol to increase tunnel tolls by 3,5%/ to help finance the new Lyon - Torino high-speed rail and improvements in the existing line

(b) the French are imposing an eco-tax of €0,12/km on trucks on Alipne areas, but the Italians refuse to implement such tax on their highways
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Old July 17th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #3765
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LOL, an "eco tax". You can rather read that as government greed. Call it "green" or "eco" and you can justify just about any type of taxation.

Anyway, it's not going to change much, as stated by Keber, transit truck volumes are minimal through the French Alps.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #3766
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Like I said before: we use Mont Blanc or Frejus to avoid Switzerland. At times we take Brenner because it is cheaper but longer, but empty we always go back through Swiss. But when I am coming from England, I use Mont Blanc most of the time, especially if I am not going any further then Turin or Milan. I actually only use Brenner when I'm going home.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #3767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Are they replacing the entire viaduct? It looks to me they've built some new bridge piers, perhaps also replaced the bridge decks? That basically means an entirely new viaduct.


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Old July 19th, 2012, 10:13 AM   #3768
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Mindboggling. We haven't been running such a project since the 50's. Ok the HSR is a larger investment, but nowhere that impressive.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #3769
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Mindboggling. We haven't been running such a project since the 50's. Ok the HSR is a larger investment, but nowhere that impressive.
I always say the reconstruction of A3 is one the most underrated road projects in Western Europe. Most people think they are merely widening, when in reality they are rebuilding vast sectors and excavating dozens of tunnels.
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Old July 20th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #3770
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It's far off een for many Italians, and it is of course nice to have a good laugh at people perceived as mafia that they take 15 years to do some large roadworks. But the scale of the projects is unknown to many. 350 km through difficult terrain, almost complete reconstruction and in the meantime the old road must stay open. It's a scale not comparable with any other European road project, and that basis ought not be overshadowed by the inevitable downsides of inefficiencies that may or may not have been driven by corruption and other criminal activity.
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Old July 20th, 2012, 01:33 AM   #3771
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So how much does this A3 reconstruction cost?
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Old July 20th, 2012, 01:58 AM   #3772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
So how much does this A3 reconstruction cost?
9,86 billions of euros between 2002 and 2013. Initially it was estimated at 5,5 billions.
75,5km of A3 are still in planning stages.
The new allignment will be 10km shorter than the original one.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 07:19 PM   #3773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Are they replacing the entire viaduct? It looks to me they've built some new bridge piers, perhaps also replaced the bridge decks? That basically means an entirely new viaduct.
Sfalassà is considered an historic landmark and will not be replaced, only enlarged.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #3774
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image hosted on flickr

DSC09915 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=46...sz=14&t=m&z=14


image hosted on flickr

DSC09926 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=46...sz=15&t=m&z=15


image hosted on flickr

DSC09930 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=46...sz=15&t=m&z=15
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Old July 24th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #3775
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The A23 is really awesome
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #3776
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Which motorway is considered more beautiful, A23 or A22?
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #3777
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Which motorway is considered more beautiful, A23 or A22?
A22 is nice, especially between Chiusa/Klausen and Vipiteno/Sterzing, but A23 is nicer overall. The road itself is smoother.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #3778
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but still A10 is the most impressive imo due to configuration of terrain. i know about A23 area, but A10 passes really through impossible terrain
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Old July 24th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #3779
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Of the Italian autostrade going through the Alps A10 is the most impressive because of the combination of ocean + high mountains + road that crosses through mountains instead of not following a valley.

A5 north of Aosta could claim that position, but is 90% tunneled...
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Old July 24th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #3780
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Yes but A10 is bad. I mean, sometimes it's more like a superstrada than an autostrada. A23 is state of the art, instead.
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