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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #3801
Coccodrillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In English you should always use the local name if no English exonimus exists. Since those places are in Italy the local name is in Italian.
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I never write Pola, Fiume and Capodistria in the international forum even if I use them while speaking Italian because they aren't local names anymore. For the same reason I don't expect Bozen, Meran and Bruneck written here, even if German speaker use them.
The local name of villages in the valley where the SS49 runs are like Innichen, Toblach, Bruneck, not San Candido, Dobbiaco or Brunico. They are in Italy, but this doesn't mean they should be called with the Italian exonyms (sure, later these became partially endonyms, but not for most locals). Just like German-speaking Swiss don't use Neuenburg or Bellenz referring to Neuchâtel and Bellinzona when communicating in English, even if most Swiss speak (a) German (dialect) as mother language.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #3802
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but still A10 is the most impressive imo due to configuration of terrain. i know about A23 area, but A10 passes really through impossible terrain
Both are impresive, but Sicilian motorway triangle Messina - Palermo - Catania is also really magnificent. Motorway quality may not be that good, but otherwise it is still spectacular.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #3803
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Both are impresive, but Sicilian motorway triangle Messina - Palermo - Catania is also really magnificent. Motorway quality may not be that good, but otherwise it is still spectacular.
i trust it is, but anyway the first class are only A10 and A23 imo.

btw has somebody driven A15? that is one of the rarest mentioned motorways in Italy, isn't it? absolutely mistery to me.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:06 PM   #3804
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btw has somebody driven A15? that is one of the rarest mentioned motorways in Italy, isn't it? absolutely mistery to me.
I drove it several times, both directions. Scenery is stunning, the motorway itself is quite good from the Ligurian side until the watershed, but on the other side of the Apennines it is bad: lots of steep descents followed by 60-km/h-limited curves, very dangerous.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #3805
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo

The local name of villages in the valley where the SS49 runs are like Innichen, Toblach, Bruneck, not San Candido, Dobbiaco or Brunico. They are in Italy, but this doesn't mean they should be called with the Italian exonyms (sure, later these became partially endonyms, but not for most locals). Just like German-speaking Swiss don't use Neuenburg or Bellenz referring to Neuchâtel and Bellinzona when communicating in English, even if most Swiss speak (a) German (dialect) as mother language.
Switzerland is a multi-language country with 3 main linguistic groups at the same level. Italy has a main official language with many minorities.

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btw has somebody driven A15? that is one of the rarest mentioned motorways in Italy, isn't it? absolutely mistery to me.
With my parents when I was 10, don't remember much.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:25 PM   #3806
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Originally Posted by italystf
Switzerland is a multi-language country with 3 main linguistic groups at the same level. Italy has a main official language with many minorities.

With my parents when I was 10, don't remember much.
German in Sudtirol is not a minority language, Italian is. Only Bozen/Bolzano has more Italian speakers: 73%. But most of them is import from the south. Don't forget that Sudtirol is an autonomous region, that has both the interests of Austria and Italy at heart.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #3807
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German in Sudtirol is not a minority language, Italian is. Only Bozen/Bolzano has more Italian speakers: 73%. But most of them is import from the south. Don't forget that Sudtirol is an autonomous region, that has both the interests of Austria and Italy at heart.
Not just Bolzano:
Laives 71,5% Italians
Bronzolo 62% Italians
Salorno 61,85% Italians
Vadena 61,5% Italians
The 2nd Alto Adige city, Merano, it's around fifty-fifty.

Anyway, if you are Dutch and not Italian or Austrian, why you care so much about this thing? Let Italians and Austrians fighting each other...
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #3808
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I live in Tirol, and nobody are fighting each other. But where I live, Tirol is Tirol. Even if there is a border in between, because as far as the population of both sides are concerned there are no borders. Regional newspapers on both sides are paying as much attention to what is happening in Innsbruck as well as Bozen/Bolzano.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #3809
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I live in Tirol, and nobody are fighting each other. But where I live, Tirol is Tirol. Even if there is a border in between, because as far as the population of both sides are concerned there are no borders. Regional newspapers on both sides are paying as much attention to what is happening in Innsbruck as well as Bozen/Bolzano.
I wonder how the two Tirols are so culturally integrated even if divided by the Alpine watershield that didn't allow easy contacts between the two sides in the past centuries. It's not a geographically open border such the one between Lombardy and Canton Ticino, or between BENELUX countries or ex-Yugo countries.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #3810
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The Brenner Pass is low and easy to cross, even in past times - and the pass between Toblach-Dobbiaco and Innichen-San Candido (and thus Lienz) is even easier.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #3811
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That's right. And then there are a number of passes that are easy to cross on foot. There is one just down the road from here. Sudtirol used to be a part of Austria, and at that time north, east and south Tirol was all connected. Now between east (Lienz) and north Tirol there is Salzburgerland and the Italian South Tirol in between. Doesn't make much difference for the population, as far as they are concerned Tirol is Tirol. And who are we to blame them?
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #3812
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The history changed European borders dozens of times throghout the centuries, not respecting etnical divisions and provoking massive migrations. Alto Adige/Südtirol is an example of this.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #3813
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That's right. Mussolini moved a lot from the north to the south, and from the south to the north, but after a while you will see: culture will always win from aggresion. Look at both Germany and Italy now: both fine countries, with fine people and the greatest cultures.

Amen brother... LOL
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #3814
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Oh my god you said sudtirol
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #3815
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And its the people that make things what they are. Not Bozen-Bolzano, Rome, Innsbruck or Brussels. All they can do is try and protect certain interests.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #3816
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I drove it several times, both directions. Scenery is stunning, the motorway itself is quite good from the Ligurian side until the watershed, but on the other side of the Apennines it is bad: lots of steep descents followed by 60-km/h-limited curves, very dangerous.
And northbound has a radar control just after a tunnerl with 60 km/h top speed downwards. I know it by memory since I drive on this highway every year to go to my holidayhouse in Lucca, if I remember the section it should be after the Tugo restarea, near Borgotaro. It looks like this


I'll go there in September, if I can I'll take pics
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Old July 24th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #3817
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That's right. Mussolini moved a lot from the north to the south, and from the south to the north, but after a while you will see: culture will always win from aggresion. Look at both Germany and Italy now: both fine countries, with fine people and the greatest cultures.

Amen brother... LOL
Mussolini repressed all linguistic minorances in Italy: Germans, French, Slovenes, Croats,...
All surnames were italianized and only Italian could be taught at school. All toponymes in Aosta Valley were italianized (Cormaiore instead of Courmayeur). Opicina (near Trieste) became Poggioreale sul Carso because Opicina had Slovenian origins. The Slovenian cultural center in Trieste (narodni dom, national house, located in Via Fabio Filzi, now languages university) was set on fire.
In Alto Adige / Südtirol there were the Katakombenschule (underground schools), where German language was taugh to children secretely.
But since it wasn't enough, they also ban foreign words from everyday language: mescita instead of bar, tramezzino instead of sandwich, acquavite instead of cognac,... Sounds crazy? Well, France still do that with English words.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #3818
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Oh my god you said sudtirol
I said both as it should be correct. But no just German.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #3819
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And northbound has a radar control just after a tunnerl with 60 km/h top speed downwards. I know it by memory since I drive on this highway every year to go to my holidayhouse in Lucca, if I remember the section it should be after the Tugo restarea, near Borgotaro. It looks like this


I'll go there in September, if I can I'll take pics
I have some pics made some months ago, northbound until the watershed... tomorrow I'll try and post them.
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Old July 25th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #3820
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btw has somebody driven A15? that is one of the rarest mentioned motorways in Italy, isn't it? absolutely mistery to me.
And over Google Maps it looks very interesting. It seems that there is very demanding geology on northern slopes of Apennines therefore many reconstructions can be seen on satellite pictures.

And this:



https://maps.google.com/?ll=44.52831...enija&t=k&z=17

I have a feeling that we already discussed about that motorway some years ago.
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