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Old July 30th, 2012, 09:06 PM   #4001
Satyricon84
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A Fisker Karma too
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Old July 30th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #4002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Isn't A4 between Milano and Novara planned for 2x4? Or did I misunderstood something?

.
it will be 2x4 only between Milan and Marcallo Mesero, or the exit to and from Malpensa. Ticino river is just west of Marcallo Mesero, so it will be 3x3

As I said thought hopefully the bridge will be 3+1 so that it will be allowed in the future to widen also this piece 2x4. A widening that today is totally unnecesary
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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #4003
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A Fisker Karma too
since Justin Bieber drives it, it is double tolled
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Old July 30th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #4004
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We were not so intelligent. Except a few cases, every time we build an extralane we have to remake all bridges or most of them. There are exceptions: on A14 in the newer stretches south of Ancona it was possible to enlarge without touching overpassing bridges and so on.

Anyway this bridge will surely be built 3+1 so in the future if necessary it could be made into 4+4 without emergency lane, which is fine for a bridge

For now the project is to add the emergency lane on the entire Torino-Milano with some upgrades in terms of size, quality of the road etc whil the Marcallo-Mesero- Milano will be 2x4.

There is - as of today - not much need for a 2x4 also accross Ticino, but we all now these things change
The A22 between Modena and Verona is already ready for 2x3 since it has a very wide grass median.

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Stelvio Pass is the only way to get from Northern Lombardy to Alto Adige, and it's open only during summers. I think it's enough for Valtellina to feel isolated. Tolls will only make this isolation worse
They should dig a tunnel under Stelvio pass to keep this important connection open year-round, especially after the SS38 Colico - Sondrio - Bormio was upgraded to a 2 lane expressway.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
As for electric cars: that is a joke. There is hardly any electric car whose range can travel over the Passo Stelvio safely from Bromio to Prato allo Stelvio. None.
This law isn't made just for 2012. Hopefully electric cars will became more and more reliable and widespread in the next decades.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #4005
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I think you mistranslated. Motorbikes will be tolled: cyclists will climb the Pass for free.
Oh, I read too fast :p
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Old July 30th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #4006
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Can a Tesla climb up all the harpins ("tornanti")?

I measured the fuel consumption on several passes' ascents and it is usually like 25-30 liters/100km instead of the usual 5-7.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #4007
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As for the Stelvio: a medium altitude tunnel (entrances at 1600m approximately) and 1+1 expressway approaches would go a LONG way making the connections to the area better.

Especially with the crawling but ongoing projects on SS38.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 02:53 AM   #4008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
A Fisker Karma too
But Karma is only a hybrid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Can a Tesla climb up all the harpins ("tornanti")?

I measured the fuel consumption on several passes' ascents and it is usually like 25-30 liters/100km instead of the usual 5-7.
Sure, and it's REALLY funny to drive on mountain roads too. The amazing thing is that you can regenerate some energy while descending to the other side.

End of O.T.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 03:38 AM   #4009
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But Karma is only a hybrid.
It's series-hybrid car, not parallel hybrid. This system has electric traction only, combustion engine turns only the generator to recharge battery in case of long drive.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 12:33 PM   #4010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
http://www.giornaledibrescia.it/le-n...sadetailholder

Green light for Stelvio Pass toll. Starting from next 1st January cars on the Pass will be tolled 10 euro. Electric cars will NOT be tolled.
A longer article about this news:
http://viaggi.repubblica.it/articolo...al-2013/226041

Main issues:
- Cars and motorbikes will pay 10 euro, heavy vehicles 30 euro. Electric cars and cyclists free.
- No toll booth, a vignette will be introduced. There also is a seasonal vignette for 60 euro.
- All money will be used for maintenance and update of the road, environmental works, and PT improvement.
- Toll introduction will likely not lower traffic. In similar tolled alpine roads (Grossglockner, Tre cime di Lavaredo, Rombo) traffic is increasing steadily.
- Most inhabitants prefer a road closure in specific times of the day, instead of tolls.

Last edited by g.spinoza; July 31st, 2012 at 02:25 PM.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 05:34 PM   #4011
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This article says money will be used to finance roadworks as well.

The idea of closing mountain passes to vehicles is unacceptable.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 05:45 PM   #4012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This article says money will be used to finance roadworks as well.
I already said that.

Quote:
The idea of closing mountain passes to vehicles is unacceptable.

Many other passes are closed at certain times of the day.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 05:54 PM   #4013
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Many other passes are closed at certain times of the day.
That is usually the case when there is avalanche risk, which closes the passes in mid-afternoon.

It is a different thing than closing a pass due every day couple hours for cyclists.

===============
Now, the comparison with Rombo and Gloßglockner are not entirely proper: those routes had a lot of facilities built, they make for a nicer experience in terms of signaling, art installations along the route, and their summit is far more organized than the chaos at the Stelvio summit.

If proceedings for tolls will create such a route enhancement there, I'm all for tolling it.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 05:57 PM   #4014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is usually the case when there is avalanche risk, which closes the passes in mid-afternoon.

It is a different thing than closing a pass due every day couple hours for cyclists.
I agree.

Quote:
Now, the comparison with Rombo and Gloßglockner are not entirely proper: those routes had a lot of facilities built, they make for a nicer experience in terms of signaling, art installations along the route, and their summit is far more organized than the chaos at the Stelvio summit.
I don't know if the comparison is not proper. I think I'll drive such roads for the scenery, certainly not for facilities and art installations...
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Old July 31st, 2012, 06:47 PM   #4015
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I don't know if the comparison is not proper. I think I'll drive such roads for the scenery, certainly not for facilities and art installations...
Of course!

Those facilities add and enhance the stunning scenery that is already there

Also, they provide something critical: more parking spots along the route so you can get out, go to some vantage point to look at the mountains etc.

The Stelvio summit needs urgent renovation, though. Its restaurants and bathrooms are bad, they have those shacks selling merchandise and souvenirs etc. As I wrote once, they should have an Autogrill up there.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 08:54 PM   #4016
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Quote:
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As I wrote once, they should have an Autogrill up there.
No, they should have traditional alpine buildings up there with restaurants and shops inside. An Autogrill style building would spoil the view. And Autogrill company wouldn't invest for an Autogrill that stays open just 5 months a year.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 08:59 PM   #4017
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No, they should have traditional alpine buildings up there with restaurants and shops inside. An Autogrill style building would spoil the view. And Autogrill company wouldn't invest for an Autogrill that stays open just 5 months a year.
I'm talking less of the architecture as I'm talking about the food offer, organization and a minimal of "customer centered" service.

Of course in a mountain top you'd like to have massive glass panels instead of walls

But, hey, that doesn't mean filthy bathrooms, unorganized stores, long lines and bad food.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 12:25 AM   #4018
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A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria: new opening today

- Anas has now opened to traffic of the new gallery "Barritteri" and the new release of Bagnara-Sant'Elia-Melicuccà, the stretch of the A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria between the junctions of St. Elias and Palmi, near Reggio Calabria.

- Open to traffic by August 2 additional km of new motorway A3.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 10:25 AM   #4019
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A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria: new opening today

- Anas has now opened to traffic of the new gallery "Barritteri" and the new release of Bagnara-Sant'Elia-Melicuccà, the stretch of the A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria between the junctions of St. Elias and Palmi, near Reggio Calabria.

- Open to traffic by August 2 additional km of new motorway A3.
By new "release" I guess you mean "new exit". Google translate
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Old August 1st, 2012, 01:55 PM   #4020
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What kind of gallery is? Art gallery or photo gallery?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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