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Old August 26th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #4081
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Do you call ALL place names in its original? Even in speech?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #4082
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Quote:
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Do you call ALL place names in its original? Even in speech?
No.

I'm pragmatic.

City names of European countries whose alphabets are close to Latin should be written in their original form.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 08:14 PM   #4083
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Centuries of usage to the contrary notwithstanding?

Good luck with that.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #4084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

No.

I'm pragmatic.

City names of European countries whose alphabets are close to Latin should be written in their original form.
You have a very alternative way of thinking indeed. Very strange if I may say so.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #4085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
No.

I'm pragmatic.

City names of European countries whose alphabets are close to Latin should be written in their original form.
So should countries? No way I'm gonna say "Deutschland" or "Suomi". It would sound ridiculous.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #4086
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So should countries? No way I'm gonna say "Deutschland" or "Suomi". It would sound ridiculous.
or Zhong Guo (i've been googling for it, i must admit)
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Old August 27th, 2012, 01:31 AM   #4087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Che?
"Che"

???

Use google translate.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 01:36 AM   #4088
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SS 640 Agrigento-Caltanissetta

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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #4089
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Sometimes I use the original (German, Italian, etc.) names because I don't know the English one and I'm lazy to search for it. Sometimes I don't know whether the English name is really in use (e.g. English people do really call the German city of Nürnberg as Nuremberg?).

However, using the local name version may cause some real troubles e.g. in Südtirol / Trentino Alto Adige or Transylvania. Unfortunately those towns usually don't have neutral English names :-)
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #4090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Sometimes I use the original (German, Italian, etc.) names because I don't know the English one and I'm lazy to search for it. Sometimes I don't know whether the English name is really in use (e.g. English people do really call the German city of Nürnberg as Nuremberg?).
I guess so, mainly because they wouldn't know how to pronounce "ü". In Italian we call it "Norimberga".

Last edited by g.spinoza; August 28th, 2012 at 04:18 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #4091
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I prefer the actual name of the city as well, transliterated if necessary.

Exonyms are fairly random, usually historically grown. For instance in Dutch we don't use exonyms for all but one U.S. state (California). Apparently Georgia and Virginia are no problem to pronounce or write, except for California, which is exonymized to Californië. The worst exonyms in Dutch is in my opinion the elementary school-level of phonetically changing names. For instance Baku > Bakoe, Budapest > Boedapest, though this is by far not consistently done.

The weirdest exonyms for Italian cities are Genoa and Padua for me. Both Genova and Genua/Genoa are also widely used in Dutch, I even think some people are not aware Genoa and Genova is actually the same place (not to mention Belgian cities in either Dutch or French).
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #4092
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Dutch names would be fairly impossible to pronounce in Italian. I prefer exonyms.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #4093
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What if there are no exonyms available? (which accounts for approximately 99% of the towns and cities).
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #4094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What if there are no exonyms available? (which accounts for approximately 99% of the towns and cities).
They are mainly cities which 99,9% of Italians will never have to pronounce, or even acknowledge their existence.

In the unfortunate case they have to pronounce them, I guess pronounciation horrors may occur.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:52 PM   #4095
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Aachen (DE, with similar names in other Germanic languages)/Aix-la-Chapelle (FR)/Aquisgrana (IT, with similar names in other Latin languages)
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Old August 28th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #4096
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Some say endonyms are unnatural. However, why can we say Genève but not Liège, and Lugano but not Milano?
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #4097
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Here in Hungary we very seldom use exonyms (I mean outside the area of historic Hungary). And many Hungarian names are simply the original name with a hungarianized spelling, e.g. Róma for Roma (same pronounciation). There are no more then 6-7 exonyms really in use here, and as far as I know only one of them in Italy (Venezia => Velence).
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #4098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
....Sometimes I don't know whether the English name is really in use (e.g. English people do really call the German city of Nürnberg as Nuremberg?).
English-speaking people certainly refer to "Nuremberg" in historical contexts (the Nuremberg Trials, for example). I would call the city "Nuremberg" if I had occasion to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I prefer the actual name of the city as well, transliterated if necessary.

Exonyms are fairly random, usually historically grown. For instance in Dutch we don't use exonyms for all but one U.S. state (California). Apparently Georgia and Virginia are no problem to pronounce or write, except for California, which is exonymized to Californië. The worst exonyms in Dutch is in my opinion the elementary school-level of phonetically changing names. For instance Baku > Bakoe, Budapest > Boedapest, though this is by far not consistently done.

The weirdest exonyms for Italian cities are Genoa and Padua for me. Both Genova and Genua/Genoa are also widely used in Dutch, I even think some people are not aware Genoa and Genova is actually the same place (not to mention Belgian cities in either Dutch or French).
During the 2006 winter Olympics, NBC was driving me up the wall by calling Turin "Torino." I don't know why they were doing this, but "Turin" is the well-established English name for that city, so the impression NBC was creating with me wasn't respect for the Italian language and culture, but geographical ignorance.

Given that places tend to get exonyms because they're important and well-known, I don't see why anyone from, say, Florence would be offended that speakers of different languages have different names for it. And Dutch people who shall remain nameless don't get to tell me that I can't say "Venice," "Florence" and "Rome." Or "Brittany." :-P

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What if there are no exonyms available? (which accounts for approximately 99% of the towns and cities).
But there is one available for Brittany, and EVERYONE uses it in English.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #4099
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Some say endonyms are unnatural. However, why can we say Genève but not Liège, and Lugano but not Milano?
Because it's history, and languages. If you want to ignore both, then we should abolish languages all over the world and replace them with a unified esperanto, volapuk o klingon language.
I will always say "L'Aia", which is simple in my mother tongue, rather than 's-Gravenhage, which I don't know where to start in pronouncing it.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #4100
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Nobody in the Netherlands says 's-Gravenhage. It's an archaic name and never used in daily speech. For the Dutch, that city is named Den Haag, which is not too hard.
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