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Old September 3rd, 2012, 07:26 PM   #4201
ChrisZwolle
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E66 was correct between 1983 and 1985. After they renumbered the E-grid in 1975 (effective 1983) many routes were swapped again in 1985.

The Italians never updated the signage. They still indicate E31 between Parma and La Spezia while it's been E33 since 1983. E31 runs in the Netherlands and Germany.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 07:34 PM   #4202
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
E66 was correct between 1983 and 1985. After they renumbered the E-grid in 1975 (effective 1983) many routes were swapped again in 1985.

The Italians never updated the signage. They still indicate E31 between Parma and La Spezia while it's been E33 since 1983. E31 runs in the Netherlands and Germany.
To me, roads with several identifiers make no sense. Either you abolish all national designations and replace them with E-routes, or you do like UK does, not caring at all about E-routes. I for sure will never say "I'm going to Milan, I'll take the E64". In Italy only the E45 is known, and only between Cesena and Perugia, and only because the road Italian name is absurd (SS3 bis).

So in this sense I can understand why they never updated the signage. Why bother, if this information is used by nobody?
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 08:17 PM   #4203
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I doubt if many people would notice it, considering close to nobody drives through Europe relying solely on E-numbers.

E-numbers are something that used to be useful in the past, because many countries did not have a national road numbering in the 1950s and if they did, it was often not signed adequately.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 08:39 PM   #4204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
To me, roads with several identifiers make no sense. Either you abolish all national designations and replace them with E-routes, or you do like UK does, not caring at all about E-routes. I for sure will never say "I'm going to Milan, I'll take the E64". In Italy only the E45 is known, and only between Cesena and Perugia, and only because the road Italian name is absurd (SS3 bis).

So in this sense I can understand why they never updated the signage. Why bother, if this information is used by nobody?
The E-[number] is very helpful if you travel on long distances through several countries.

Just an example: to go from Milan to Athens (without taking a ferry) having to follow only the classical numbering, you should drive on a lot of differently-numbered highways and bypasses... You would have to read carefully every panel you find on the rouad.


With E-numbering you just follow E64 (till Brescia), then E70 (till Belgrade) and finally E75 (till Athens).
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:01 PM   #4205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauz®
The E-[number] is very helpful if you travel on long distances through several countries.

Just an example: to go from Milan to Athens (without taking a ferry) having to follow only the classical numbering, you should drive on a lot of differently-numbered highways and bypasses... You would have to read carefully every panel you find on the rouad.

With E-numbering you just follow E64 (till Brescia), then E70 (till Belgrade) and finally E75 (till Athens).
Apart the fact that those who drive so long transcontinental trips are just a small % among all motorway users, you don't need E numbers to travel from Milan to Athens. Just follow control cities. Follow Venice when you're in Milan, then Trieste, Ljubljana, Zagreb and so. In some istances in useful to know names of border crossings (Fernetti, Bregana,...) because they're often signposted.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:08 PM   #4206
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Following E-routes sounds nice in theory but in practice you cannot rely on those numbers in many countries.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:09 PM   #4207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza
So in this sense I can understand why they never updated the signage. Why bother, if this information is used by nobody?
Or you remove E numbers at all or you correct them. Wrong numbers should be removed anyway. You don't need to change all signs, just put stickers over, like they did in 2008 when many Friulian SS routes became SR because ANAS gave them to the region.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:16 PM   #4208
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This.

Better to have no information than information that's 30 years out of date, i.m.o....
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:26 PM   #4209
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods
This.

Better to have no information than information that's 30 years out of date, i.m.o....
I heard that we have still signs pointing to A2, that was incorporated into A1 in 1988.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 11:02 PM   #4210
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Or you remove E numbers at all or you correct them. Wrong numbers should be removed anyway. You don't need to change all signs, just put stickers over, like they did in 2008 when many Friulian SS routes became SR because ANAS gave them to the region.
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
This.

Better to have no information than information that's 30 years out of date, i.m.o....
Remove or replace signs, that's expensive.
Since nobody cares about those wrong signs, why bother?
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 11:11 PM   #4211
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I think we should remove E numbers at all, our signs are already overcrowded and difficult to read at 130kph. But also other countries should do that, we can't do that us alone (we are not an island like UK).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 11:35 PM   #4212
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I heard that we have still signs pointing to A2, that was incorporated into A1 in 1988.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 02:58 AM   #4213
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Remove or replace signs, that's expensive.
Since nobody cares about those wrong signs, why bother?
Well, your signs badly need redesign anyway. :-P (Seriously, how does anyone read them at speed?)
Whether you put E-numbers on the new ones or not is up to you.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #4214
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That would mess the Belgians up...
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Old September 4th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #4215
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I find our highways signage quite clear. It's the rural one the problem
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Old September 4th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #4216
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Well, your signs badly need redesign anyway. :-P (Seriously, how does anyone read them at speed?)
I can. But I read very fast.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 11:04 AM   #4217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
This.

Better to have no information than information that's 30 years out of date, i.m.o....
They're not out of date!

Many SS became SR (Regional) or SP (Provincial) but they all maintained their number!

Then, if there's a thing that Italian people don't care about is the number. Italian people take care of the number only with motorways. But not everyone as, you know, Italian motorways are all nicknamed!

I care about numer only because it's my habit: 33, 336, 341 and 527 are the four SSs that run in my town.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 11:15 AM   #4218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88

They're not out of date!

Many SS became SR (Regional) or SP (Provincial) but they all maintained their number!

Then, if there's a thing that Italian people don't care about is the number. Italian people take care of the number only with motorways. But not everyone as, you know, Italian motorways are all nicknamed!

I care about numer only because it's my habit: 33, 336, 341 and 527 are the four SSs that run in my town.
A lot of French and Austrian motorways are nicknamed as well.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #4219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I can. But I read very fast.
Apart from speed-reading, you also need a hawkeye to be able to read the route numbers of Italian signs. The font size employed for this purpose is a lot smaller than the rest of the sign and tricky to read at 130 km/h.

Otherwise, there is some oddity in the Italian choice to signpost E-numbers that are hardly being used (leaving aside exceptions like the E45 Orte - Cesena and the E78) while omitting those route numbers that are being used.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 11:24 AM   #4220
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A lot of French and Austrian motorways are nicknamed as well.
I know! Especially in Austria! I remember the Süd-Autobahn (A2) running from Villach to Wien!
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