daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 4th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #4241
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
And how much does Italy give to the EU?
In 2009, Italy received from the EU more than six billion euro more than they paid to the EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
And what has this to do with anything?
The suggestion was that if someone wanted E route signs in Italy, they should pay for them. I submit that the EU have been paying more than enough for Italy to comply with the spirit, as well as the letter, of european membership (including consistently posting E route numbers).
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 4th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #4242
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

E-routes have nothing to do with the European Union. They are not mandated nor administered by the European Union.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #4243
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,515
Likes (Received): 2120

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
In 2009, Italy received from the EU more than six billion euro more than they paid to the EU.
In 2001 Italy gave 2 billion more than it received.
In 2010, Italy gave 5 billion more than it received.

In the last 15 years, Italy gave more than it received.
Please get informed.

Quote:
The suggestion was that if someone wanted E route signs in Italy, they should pay for them. I submit that the EU have been paying more than enough for Italy to comply with the spirit, as well as the letter, of european membership (including consistently posting E route numbers).
Pity, European Union and E-routes have nothing in common. E-routes are managed by United Nations.
Again, please get informed.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #4244
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In 2001 Italy gave 2 billion more than it received.
In 2010, Italy gave 5 billion more than it received.

In the last 15 years, Italy gave more than it received.
Please get informed.
Sorry about that. I just checked the Wikipedia page and it had 2009 data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Pity, European Union and E-routes have nothing in common. E-routes are managed by United Nations.
Again, please get informed.
I'm well aware of that, which is why I wrote "comply with the spirit, as well as the letter, of european membership ...."
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2012, 09:41 PM   #4245
Eddard Stark
Keep your head
 
Eddard Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bruxelles
Posts: 13,155
Likes (Received): 3841

Mcarling the answer is less than it gives. We are a net contributor to the eu. More than uk if i am not wrong and not far from france
Eddard Stark no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #4246
WalkTheWorld
Ministry of Truth
 
WalkTheWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Room 101
Posts: 4,294
Likes (Received): 3519

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Sorry about that. I just checked the Wikipedia page and it had 2009 data.
That page is a little bit tricky...it says "negative values mean net contribution"...so indeed we paid 6 billions more than we received in 2009. Same value for France, nearly 9 billions for Germany and 3/3.5 for the UK. Indeed...when you are not a large recipient of EU aids, having a negative balance means you had a slump in GDP or some calculations were plain wrong and you will get it back. As a matter of fact Italy, in the decade 2000/2009 dropped something like 30 extra billions in Brussels which could have made for a helluvalot of new stickers.... Or a gazillion miles on new lanes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling;94793313 I'm well aware of that, which is why I wrote "comply with the [b
spirit[/b], as well as the letter, of european membership ...."
True, but sometimes I'd like to see this at work in way more important details. Like road markings.Just to give you a minor example, I've found some white traingles at the end of some side alleys in London. If I am not wrong it means "one way". In Italy that means "yield!" and you expect a vehicle from the opposwite direction...The Dutch for "pedestrian crossing" fails to catch my eye.
__________________
Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

Last edited by WalkTheWorld; September 5th, 2012 at 08:03 PM.
WalkTheWorld no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 07:13 PM   #4247
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
E-Numbers are omitted in many countries! Have you ever seen an E-Number in Germany?

Then, numbers, well, Italian motorways are not so many and then it's easy for Italian people to remember all the motorways and their numbers. And as I explained some minutes ago, Italians prefer nicknames to numbers!
Sounds all like a valid case to minimise the role of E-numbers on Italian road signs, pretty much like the Germans do. So what drove the choice to signpost them (and A-numbers and other numbers that are claimed not to be used) in a font size that requires a hawkeye? If you don't care about them, everyone is better off by omitting the numbers altogether than by signposting them in an unreadible way.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #4248
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino-
Sounds all like a valid case to minimise the role of E-numbers on Italian road signs, pretty much like the Germans do. So what drove the choice to signpost them (and A-numbers and other numbers that are claimed not to be used) in a font size that requires a hawkeye? If you don't care about them, everyone is better off by omitting the numbers altogether than by signposting them in an unreadible way.
The A numbers in Italy could be useful, the E numbers not.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #4249
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,088
Likes (Received): 4752

Italians even sign E751, which doesn't even run through Italy.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 10:49 PM   #4250
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,467
Likes (Received): 1937

And they also sign E31, which only run in Germany and the Netherlands. However they don't sign E33, which actually is in Italy. Moreover, E33 is signed as E31.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #4251
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Yeah that's pretty much what we've been discussing the last few pages
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #4252
Bothar.G
Registered User
 
Bothar.G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Galway, IRL
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
Italian motorways and their nicknames:

A1 Milan - Naples "Motorway of the Sun"
A3 Salerno - Reggio Calabria
A4 Turin - Trieste "The Serenissima"
A5 Turin - Mont Blanc "Aosta Valley's Motorway"
A6 Turin - Savona "The Verdemare"
A7 Milan - Genoa "The Serravalle" and "Giovi Motorway"
A8 Milan - Varese "The Motorway of Lakes"
A9 Lainate - Chiasso "The Motorway of Lakes"
A10 Genoa - Ventimiglia "The Motorways of Flowers"
A11 Florence - Pisa
A12 Genoa - Rome "The Azure Motorway"
A13 Bologna - Padova
A14 Bologna - Taranto "The Adriatic Motorway"
A15 Parma - La Spezia "Cisa's Motorway"
A16 Naples - Canosa di Puglia "The Two Seas Motorway"
A18 Messina - Catania
A19 Palermo - Catania
A20 Messina - Palermo
A21 Turin - Piacenza - Brescia "The Motorway of Wines"
A22 Modena - Brenner "The Brenner's Motorway"
A23 Tarvisio - Palmanova "Alps to Adria Motorway"
A24 Rome - Teramo "The Motorway of Parks"
A25 Torano - Pescara "The Motorway of Parks"
A26 Genoa - Gravellona Toce "The Motorway of Tunnels"
A27 Venice - Belluno "Alemagna Motorway"
A28 Portogruaro - Conegliano Veneto
A29 Palermo - Mazara del Vallo "Motorway of the Salt"
A30 Caserta - Salerno
A31 Vicenza - Schio "Val d'Astico's Motorway"
A32 Turin - Bardonecchia "Frejus's Motorway"
A33 Asti - Cuneo "Langhe's Motorway"
I remember our Italian bus driver mentioned an unofficial nickname for one called "the highway to heaven". I think it was somewhere near Milan but it was called so because of a bullet-straight section that went through a valley. People died due to accidents caused by the exceptionally long, straight highway.
Bothar.G no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 11:28 PM   #4253
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothar.G

I remember our Italian bus driver mentioned an unofficial nickname for one called "the highway to heaven". I think it was somewhere near Milan but it was called so because of a bullet-straight section that went through a valley. People died due to accidents caused by the exceptionally long, straight highway.
Is it a motorway or a state road?
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #4254
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothar.G View Post
People died due to accidents caused by the exceptionally long, straight highway.
Coroner's Report: "Cause of death: an exceptionally long, straight highway."
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012, 11:53 PM   #4255
Bothar.G
Registered User
 
Bothar.G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Galway, IRL
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Is it a motorway or a state road?
It was a motorway. I do not know the motorway/route number because our bus driver just told us about it during a casual conversation.
Bothar.G no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #4256
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothar.G
It was a motorway. I do not know the motorway/route number because our bus driver just told us about it during a casual conversation.
Maybe A8-A9. It's very straight because opened as single carriageway already in the 20s before the area north of Milan was invaded by sprawl.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2012, 12:11 AM   #4257
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Straight roads are actually less safe because you can't really watch ahead in heavy traffic and it leads to driver's fatigue. In fact, Belgium, which has one of the highest, possibly the highest motorway fatality rate in Europe, has generally dead-straight motorways.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2012, 12:28 AM   #4258
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
Straight roads are actually less safe because you can't really watch ahead in heavy traffic and it leads to driver's fatigue. In fact, Belgium, which has one of the highest, possibly the highest motorway fatality rate in Europe, has generally dead-straight motorways.
It's true especially with undivided roads where overtaking is dangerous and frontal collisions are possible. Divided highways are far more safe.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2012, 01:06 AM   #4259
Fabri88
Keratoconic User
 
Fabri88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: BUSTO ARSIZIO
Posts: 6,840
Likes (Received): 2201

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Straight roads are actually less safe because you can't really watch ahead in heavy traffic and it leads to driver's fatigue. In fact, Belgium, which has one of the highest, possibly the highest motorway fatality rate in Europe, has generally dead-straight motorways.
Which fatigue experience a driver on Italian A8?

He only has to remain concentrated for 20 minutes, the time to go from Milan-Nord toll station to Busto Arsizio.

Then, of course, you're right when talking about dozens of kms of straight highway!

But the only hint when driving on A8 (that, from Milan to Busto Arsizio is a 2x4 road) is limiting the speed and, overall, KEEP RIGHT!!!
__________________
CLINCHED COUNTRIES:
Belgique/België • Česká Republika • Deutschland • Eire • England • Espańa • Italia
Magyarorszag • Österreich • Polska • România • San Marino • Schweiz/Suisse/Svizzera/Svizra • Slovenija

YES TO THE UNITED STATES OF EUROPE ♥ FREEDOM FOR NORTH KOREA
STOP SYRIAN AND IRAQI GENOCIDE ♥ SUPPORT FEMINISM AND FEMALE EDUCATION
Fabri88 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #4260
WalkTheWorld
Ministry of Truth
 
WalkTheWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Room 101
Posts: 4,294
Likes (Received): 3519

Agaon the I15 to Las Vegas features corrugated sections waking you up once in a while. Guess it might be a popular thing over there.
__________________
Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
WalkTheWorld no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, autostrada, highways, italia, italy, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium