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Old September 6th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #4261
Bothar.G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It's true especially with undivided roads where overtaking is dangerous and frontal collisions are possible. Divided highways are far more safe.

In my country, you'll often see oncoming drivers forced into the shoulder lane by vehicles overtaking you. This happens on undivided roads that have long straight sections. Valleys can encourage more speeding when on a straight section on most roads/highways. A wide road psychologically encourages a driver to go fast.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 02:45 AM   #4262
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That is a problem with shoulders that are too wide.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #4263
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Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
Italian motorways and their nicknames:

A1 Milan - Naples "Motorway of the Sun"
A3 Salerno - Reggio Calabria
A4 Turin - Trieste "The Serenissima"
A5 Turin - Mont Blanc "Aosta Valley's Motorway"
A6 Turin - Savona "The Verdemare"
A7 Milan - Genoa "The Serravalle" and "Giovi Motorway"
A8 Milan - Varese "The Motorway of Lakes"
A9 Lainate - Chiasso "The Motorway of Lakes"
A10 Genoa - Ventimiglia "The Motorways of Flowers"
A11 Florence - Pisa
A12 Genoa - Rome "The Azure Motorway"
A13 Bologna - Padova
A14 Bologna - Taranto "The Adriatic Motorway"
A15 Parma - La Spezia "Cisa's Motorway"
A16 Naples - Canosa di Puglia "The Two Seas Motorway"
A18 Messina - Catania
A19 Palermo - Catania
A20 Messina - Palermo
A21 Turin - Piacenza - Brescia "The Motorway of Wines"
A22 Modena - Brenner "The Brenner's Motorway"
A23 Tarvisio - Palmanova "Alps to Adria Motorway"
A24 Rome - Teramo "The Motorway of Parks"
A25 Torano - Pescara "The Motorway of Parks"
A26 Genoa - Gravellona Toce "The Motorway of Tunnels"
A27 Venice - Belluno "Alemagna Motorway"
A28 Portogruaro - Conegliano Veneto
A29 Palermo - Mazara del Vallo "Motorway of the Salt"
A30 Caserta - Salerno
A31 Vicenza - Schio "Val d'Astico's Motorway"
A32 Turin - Bardonecchia "Frejus's Motorway"
A33 Asti - Cuneo "Langhe's Motorway"
* Napoli-Reggio Calabria
* Catania-Messina and Siracusa-Gela

Giŕ che ci siete, spiegate agli stranieri perchč manca la A17.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #4264
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Giŕ che ci siete, spiegate agli stranieri perchč manca la A17.
"Explain foreingers why Italian motorways system lacks of A17"

Let's explain it: 17 is an unlucky number in Italy. Especially when coupled with Friday. The worst day that could be in a month is Friday 17th!

The same of number 13 for anglosaxons (and the rest of the world). On the other hand, in Italy 13 is considered at the opposite way: it's the number of luck! Why? 13 was ('cause now it's 14) the best score at Totocalcio (the lottery based on football matches): who guesses all the 13 matches results (not the exact score, but the winning team or if the teams will draw) earns lot of money.

Obviously, it's only for superstitious people.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 05:37 PM   #4265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88

"Explain foreingers why Italian motorways system lacks of A17"

Let's explain it: 17 is an unlucky number in Italy. Especially when coupled with Friday. The worst day that could be in a month is Friday 17th!

The same of number 13 for anglosaxons (and the rest of the world). On the other hand, in Italy 13 is considered at the opposite way: it's the number of luck! Why? 13 was ('cause now it's 14) the best score at Totocalcio (the lottery based on football matches): who guesses all the 13 matches results (not the exact score, but the winning team or if the teams will draw) earns lot of money.

Obviously, it's only for superstitious people.
17 is unlucky because it's written XVII in Roman numerals, that could be anagrammed to form vixi (Latin for "I lived", thus "I'm dead").

However a motorway called A17 existed in the past: the Neaples - Bari, now A16 from Neaples to Canosa and A14 from Canosa to Bari. Back then A16 was assigned to the Rome - Civitavecchia, now A12. Being in Italy, it wouldn't surprise me to see some 40 years old signs still left with A17 on them!
However we still have the RA17, SS17 and a SP17 for every province. (I think they can call A17 the RA17 once upgraded to motorway standards).

Most hotel don't have the 17th (and sometimes the 13th) room, restaurants the 17th table, skyscrapers the 17th floor, etc... In some places you switch directly from 12 to 14 and from 16 to 18, in other places they put 12bis and 16bis in between.
The beach of Bibione don't have 13 and 17 sectors.
However 13 and 17 are used in house numbering.

Off course not everybody cares about unlucky numbers (most young people don't) but many businesses prefer to avoid what may be unconfortable to some.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 05:47 PM   #4266
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That is a problem with shoulders that are too wide.
No, that is a problem with driving culture. There is almost no reckless overtaking in Spain, even though our shoulders are often very wide.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #4267
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I think I've passed on a shoulder once in 30 years of driving. And I know it was wrong.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #4268
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People pass reckless if there are no fast routes available. Reckless driving almost comes hand in hand with the lack of motorways or other 4-lane highways. Countries like Poland and Romania are notorious for it, because many routes involves hundreds of kilometers of driving across two-lane roads with heavy truck traffic.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #4269
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In my case, it was on US 322 in a sort of suburban commercial area (strip malls and the like) approaching Hershey, Pa., on a Sunday afternoon, and I'd been stuck behind the same probably-lost, well-under-the-speed-limit driver for miles. Figured if I used the shoulder to make a traffic light I'd be rid of her. Self-
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Old September 6th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #4270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
People pass reckless if there are no fast routes available. Reckless driving almost comes hand in hand with the lack of motorways or other 4-lane highways. Countries like Poland and Romania are notorious for it, because many routes involves hundreds of kilometers of driving across two-lane roads with heavy truck traffic.
Having driven in Italy, I have to say that Italian drivers overtake recklessly everywhere, either during a long roadtrip or a short one. The fact that overtaking is banned almost always doesn't help, I mean, they don't distinguish between where it is safe and where it is not because it's always banned.

There is almost no reckless passing in Spain or France, even in places only accessible by driving 100 km+ on two-lane roads.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #4271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
People pass reckless if there are no fast routes available. Reckless driving almost comes hand in hand with the lack of motorways or other 4-lane highways. Countries like Poland and Romania are notorious for it, because many routes involves hundreds of kilometers of driving across two-lane roads with heavy truck traffic.
Not always. Plenty of reckless overtaking and undertaking on motorways in places where there is hardly or no lane discipline, high volumes of traffic and where roadrage is a way of life. In Italy for example.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #4272
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Having driven in Italy, I have to say that Italian drivers overtake recklessly everywhere, either during a long roadtrip or a short one. The fact that overtaking is banned almost always doesn't help, I mean, they don't distinguish between where it is safe and where it is not because it's always banned.
That's the fact!

Solid lines everywhere and when a driver is "sleeping" in front of you you can't do anything! But when you go through your tank of "patience" then you overtake him/her.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #4273
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Plus, it's very common to drive under the speed limit in Italy (it is also common to drive way over it, but then again, you can't drive over 50 km/h in almost all undivided roads). So you have a huge speed differential that forces dangerous passing.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #4274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is a problem with shoulders that are too wide.
They do that on these type of roads in my country. You can talk your way out of a ticket in Ireland if you know the cop. But you rarely see them on the routes.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #4275
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Having driven in Italy, I have to say that Italian drivers overtake recklessly everywhere, either during a long roadtrip or a short one. The fact that overtaking is banned almost always doesn't help, I mean, they don't distinguish between where it is safe and where it is not because it's always banned.
That's consistent with my experience. Half the drivers who have passed me in Italy have moved back into my lane less than 2 meters from me -- some of them less than 20 centimeters from me -- despite having no one in front in either lane.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #4276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
People pass reckless if there are no fast routes available. Reckless driving almost comes hand in hand with the lack of motorways or other 4-lane highways. Countries like Poland and Romania are notorious for it, because many routes involves hundreds of kilometers of driving across two-lane roads with heavy truck traffic.
I see more than this in my daily Romanian life:
- lack of highways is an easy excuse for reckless driving in Romania, but when they drive on a highway, they overtake the same and don't respect the speed limits, again. So building highways is not enough.

From another hand, the Romanian jurisprudence in the last 22 years has made a habit of people not going to prison after they killed other people in car accidents, from their fault. The usual penalty is N years of prison 'with suspension of execution' (I don't know the English term).

And reckless people adapt themselves to this reality of not being punished by law and buy bigger SUVs thinking they have better chances of survival (wether they are guilty or not) from frontal car accidents (on national roads).
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Old September 7th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #4277
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Not always. Plenty of reckless overtaking and undertaking on motorways in places where there is hardly or no lane discipline, high volumes of traffic and where roadrage is a way of life. In Italy for example.
True. Still, I find motorway driving in Europe reasonably straightforward even in countries with a more aggressive driving culture. Neither Greek, Romanian or Italian motorways have bothered me too much whereas driving on their regular roads are more of a hassle. Also, as a Norwegian, I am very familiar with the concept of busy 2-lane highways and we don't see much in the way of dangerous overtaking. It's all about driver mentality.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #4278
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They do that on these type of roads in my country.
There is a reason why the Swedes have replaced such structures with 2+1 divided highways...
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Old September 7th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #4279
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Quote:
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I see more than this in my daily Romanian life:
- lack of highways is an easy excuse for reckless driving in Romania, but when they drive on a highway, they overtake the same and don't respect the speed limits, again. So building highways is not enough.
That's because you have few motorways and then drivers release all their frustrations with 2-lane roads when they finally reach a motorway. It will probably get better as you build more motorways.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #4280
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Yep, if you have 4-lane motorways (or wider) to reach most of the heavy traffic destinations there is less urgency to go nuts after you finally reach that heavenly strip of asphalt that allows for continuous passing.
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